Are gods insignificant unless they do something?

[Zzyzx]

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What is the significance of gods unless they do or have done something?

What have your favorite gods done lately (or ever)?

How do you know what they do or did? Did someone tell you? Read a book? Have a psychic experience? Use your imagination?

Is there any verifiable evidence that any of the thousands of proposed 'gods' has ever done anything?

Before humans learned about cause-and-effect in terrestrial matters, they credited ‘gods’ with being responsible for rain, flood, drought, storms, insect plagues, diseases, crop failures, thunder, darkening of the sun or moon, etc, etc. With those accounted for without need for ‘gods’, what is left for the ‘gods’ to do in respect to humans?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 19 by JehovahsWitness]

Well, I suppose the conclusion is that:
If some entity claims they did some miraculous thing, like healing sick people who had no impact, walking on water, that had no impact, saving everyones' souls that can't be shown, having omnipotence, but can't use it, that God is insignificant, even if he were real.

Let those believers have it.

All hail the God of the immaterial!
All hail the God of the what cannot be shown!
All hail the God of the unprovable!
All hail the God of the unobservable!
All hail the God of the insignificant!
All hail the God of the zero impacts!

[Zzyzx]

Is there any verifiable evidence that any of the thousands of proposed 'gods' has ever done anything?

We have multiple written records of verifiable evidence of the awsome acts of YHWH (Jehovah) the God of the bible. Acts performed before hundreds, sometimes thousands of eye-witnesses such as the parting of the Red Sea, providing of manna in the desert, the test on mount Carmel, as well as countless miracles performed before and/or experienced by witnesses.

Correction: You have unverified TALES about supposed deeds and unverified TALES that there were witnesses.

You do not have disconnected / independent witness accounts -- only the TALES themselves telling stories and making claims.

"Hundreds saw the Leprechaun dance" does NOT constitute an eye-witness account. It is part of the tale itself. The same is true for the supposed parting of seas, manna, etc -- unverified TALES claiming witnesses

[Diagoras]

This thread’s been a bit quiet ever since I asked about gods doing anything lately. Seems we’re left with historical tales.

[Clownboat]

This thread’s been a bit quiet ever since I asked about gods doing anything lately. Seems we’re left with historical tales.

It's likely uncomfortable to realize that a god that does not affect our reality is no different than a god that doesn't exist.

I sure would like to hear about the things the gods are doing though if they are doing anything.

I did get a new protein skimmer recently that I think is pretty neat. Not sure if that counts as venerating it (DavidLeon's definition of what a god is), but it at least has an effect in the real world. So, not that I agree, but perhaps my skimmer is a god (to those that would accept such a definition) that does exist and affects the world around me?

Would that make my protein skimmer greater than Jehovah?

[We_Are_VENOM]

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What is the significance of gods unless they do or have done something?

What have your favorite gods done lately (or ever)?

How do you know what they do or did? Did someone tell you? Read a book? Have a psychic experience? Use your imagination?

Is there any verifiable evidence that any of the thousands of proposed 'gods' has ever done anything?

Before humans learned about cause-and-effect in terrestrial matters, they credited ‘gods’ with being responsible for rain, flood, drought, storms, insect plagues, diseases, crop failures, thunder, darkening of the sun or moon, etc, etc. With those accounted for without need for ‘gods’, what is left for the ‘gods’ to do in respect to humans?

What have my God done lately, or at all?

Well, lets see..

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth".

Nuff said. *drops mic*

Or better yet *picks up mic*

What has evolution (macro) done lately, or ever? *drops mic again*

[Willum]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #25]

What have my God done lately, or at all?

Well, lets see..
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth".
Nuff said. *drops mic*
Or better yet *picks up mic*
What has evolution (macro) done lately, or ever? *drops mic again*

[Picks up mike.]

Those are certainly some good jokes, aren't they ladies and gentlemen?
Saying the beginning of the Earth, or as some claim, the universe and starts is "lately."

We haven't seen any god, except Ganesha, do anything in, well forever.
http://www.devipress.com/ganeshmilk.html

[Diagoras]

[Replying to Willum in post #26]

Perhaps the reason we haven't seen as much activity on the miracle front is due to the fact we haven't bought one of these:

https://gloriouscreations.net/index.php ... ag-g-c-27/

You will receive a Free 30 min. Teaching/Demonstration of Prophetic Flag Intercession movements along with scriptural paperwork.

I'm a bit puzzled as to why the bible doesn't spell out the correct movements, but perhaps it's all in the interpretation.

[We_Are_VENOM]

Those are certainly some good jokes, aren't they ladies and gentlemen?
Saying the beginning of the Earth, or as some claim, the universe and starts is "lately."

LOL Well, let me put it to you this way, Will; the fact that you (and mankind) is still taking full advantage of something that God did billions of years ago...

That has to count for something, doesn't it?

Not only that, but there are countless people who can give their personal "miracle" testimonies (which you certainly wouldn't believe), every day...which shows that God is certainly alive, doing fine, and very active.

[Overcomer]

Zzyzx wrote:

Are there ANY examples of 'miracles' or 'supernatural acts' that can be verified as caused by 'gods' (NOT just folklore tales or testimonials making unverifiable claims)?

Yes, there are. I myself have experienced a health miracle that was verified by medical tests which I have written about a number of times here. I'm happy to share the experience again.

Following a car accident, I used anti-inflammatory medications which left me with what the doctor referred to as an "Aspirin-burned stomach". An endoscope showed that the lining of my stomach was raw and bleeding and infected with bacteria. I am allergic to antibiotics, something that the doctor said was needed to kill the bacteria. There was, he said, no way for the bacteria to disappear on its own which meant there was no way for the lining of my stomach to heal on its own.

I used antacids to try to deal with the symptoms, but they did little to help and, as the doctor said, they would never eradicate the problem. After more than a year of this and trips to multiple gastroenterologists who all told me the same thing, I went to a pastor with a healing ministry. He prayed for the healing of my stomach. All of the symptoms (pain, indigestion, nausea) immediately disappeared. I had to go for yet another endoscope a few days later. It showed that the stomach lining was entirely healed, pink and healthy, no bacteria present. I asked the doctor how that could be since I couldn't take any kind of cure for it and he said he had no idea, that it was remarkable and completely unexpected -- miraculous in fact.

I am just one person with a healing that has been miraculous with medical tests and health-care workers attesting to them. One of my friends was healed of breast cancer -- the tumour disappeared following prayer. When she went for surgery, it was no longer there. The same is true of a brain tumour that a fellow attending the church of one of my friend's had -- it disappeared following prayer. In both cases, tests showed the tumours were gone.

I recommend Craig Keener's Miracles, a two-book tome which records evidence for miracles -- medical and otherwise -- in countries all around the world. He talks about in lectures found here:





One of David Hume's reasons for not believing in miracles lay in the fact that he said neither he nor anybody he knew had ever witnessed one. It's a silly reason not to believe in miracles. It suggests that he and his friends had every type of experience in the world that it was possible to have. I think that is true of many people today who deny miracles. They haven't seen them so they erroneously suppose that they can't and don't happen.

I also recommend C. S. Lewis' Miracles in which he provides a logical philosophical argument for the existence of miracles. He notes that a miracle is NOT a violation of Nature, but rather, is something new introduced into Nature that Nature can accommodate. As he put it, "The divine art of the miracle is not an art of suspending the pattern to which events conform but of feeding new events into that pattern." He said that, if the law said, “If A, then B,” and a miracle entered the scene, it would change to “if A2, then B2”, and Nature would simply say, “Okay, if A2, then B2.” As he put it, Nature “naturalises the immigrant . . . she is an accomplished hostess.”

And for a concrete example, he used that of God creating a “miraculous spermatozoon” in Mary. However, he notes that, at that point, Nature took over and the pregnancy followed its normal path.
He put it another way – that the miracle is just one more bit of raw material for the laws to apply to.

As Lewis pointed out, the problem for the Naturalist is that this new bit of raw material wasn’t always there. It just appears and doesn’t share a history with Nature and, therefore, can’t be explained by Nature. Yet Lewis says miracles interlock with Nature because they have their common origin in God. That’s the connecting factor and Naturalists can’t get their heads around that because, as Lewis puts it, they “aren’t connected by the short and straight roads we expected.”

You can read more about Lewis and the topic of Miracles here:

https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/CS_Lew ... ignificant

[Willum]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #28]

Yes it would come to something, if anyone has the least reason to believe it.
If your God created the universe billions of years ago, in opposition to work the Bible says, 10,000 years ago, this lends you as much credence as claiming Zeus or someone else created the universe.