Is God's power the same as magic?

[OnceConvinced]

Theists often get upset when people talk about God doing acts and referring to it as magic. But is there any real difference?

The first recorded act of God was creating light and what did he do? He made a verbal incantation: "Let there be light!"

Note: Abracadabra Hebrew meaning: “I will create as I speak,�
https://www.thejc.com/judaism/jewish-wo ... a-1.466709

So we have a god supposedly conjuring up things with magic words. Then we also have people claiming to have magical powers (some even claim those powers come from God himself).

Is there really any difference?
What are those differences?

[Difflugia]

Obviously this depends on how we define “magic� and how we define “God.�

I agree. I think this is a good place to start.

However, if we stick with traditional definitions for these words, then magic is a human being attempting to influence the physical world by non-physical means.

Can you provide some sort of justification that magic traditionally applies only to the efforts of human beings? Fairies and jinn are considered to be magical, but have non-human magicians.

Your current definition would also cover prayer, whether successful or not. I suspect that wasn't intentional.

The acts of God, or “miracles,� are the work of a Being which exists outside physical universe and therefore, by definition, is not subject to the laws of physical laws of this universe.

Why does God being outside of the Universe mean that His effects inside of it aren't magic?

So if our goal is accuracy, then calling the actions of God “magic� is certainly inaccurate. If our goal is something other than accuracy then that is a horse of a different color.

Certainly? So far, the only distinction I've seen is one of contested definitions. The Egyptians' staves turning to snakes is magic, but when Moses and Aaron do it, it's a miracle.

[Donray]

Of course real magic does not exist. We know that magic is only slight of hand and trickery of some type.

I guess that is why god does nothing real about answering prays since he can only use magic that any magician on earth can use.

[OnceConvinced]

Obviously this depends on how we define “magic� and how we define “God.�

However, if we stick with traditional definitions for these words, then magic is a human being attempting to influence the physical world by non-physical means. The acts of God, or “miracles,� are the work of a Being which exists outside physical universe and therefore, by definition, is not subject to the laws of physical laws of this universe.

So if our goal is accuracy, then calling the actions of God “magic� is certainly inaccurate. If our goal is something other than accuracy then that is a horse of a different color.

Well I guess you have a valid question, but many Christians claim that magic is power from the devil. Thus it IS outside the physical universe, just as it would be from God.

[OnceConvinced]

Now I understand, when I say to my students "There will be silence in here right now!" and it goes all quiet, I've cast a spell on them. That explains a lot, who knew?!


JW

Did those words conjure up any new students that didn't exist before? THAT I would consider magic.

I bring up the "Let there be light" example because it is after all the same as saying "Abracadabra"

Why would God need to make such an incantation?

[bluegreenearth]

The word "magic" is derived from the title "Magi" (plural for the singular "Magus") which referred to priests in the religion of Zoroastrianism that first entered recorded history in the 5th century BCE but with roots dating back to the second millennium BCE. Zoroastrianism is a faith centered on the concept of good and evil where evil will one day be completely defeated. The religious practices of the Magi later became known as magic.

The idea of a messiah, judgment after death, heaven and hell, and freewill are major Zoroastrian concepts that long predate Judaism and Christianity. Zoroastrianism's holy text is called the Avesta. The Avesta asserts that Ahura Mazda is the eternal, uncaused, transcendent, maximally wise, and all-good God who is the supreme creator and sustaining force of the universe through the use of divine entities. The spiritual force for truth and the cosmic order which comes from Ahura Mazda is known as Asha. Falsehood and disorder is the antithesis of Asha and is known as Druj. The pending conflict between order and chaos involves all of creation where humanity will have an active role to play. According to the Avesta, you are given the choice to support Ahura Mazda or not and are held responsible for your choice. After evil is defeated by the messiah at then end of time, reality will undergo a cosmic renovation where the souls of the dead will be resurrected to an eternal existence with Ahura Mazda in heaven. Any of this seem familiar to you?

Anyway, since the earliest concept of "magic" seems to be tied to the practices of Zoroastrian priests, it is not identical to God's power in that context.

[Danmark]

The word "magic" is derived from the title "Magi" (plural for the singular "Magus") which referred to priests in the religion of Zoroastrianism that first entered recorded history in the 5th century BCE but with roots dating back to the second millennium BCE. Zoroastrianism is a faith centered on the concept of good and evil where evil will one day be completely defeated. The religious practices of the Magi later became known as magic.

The idea of a messiah, judgment after death, heaven and hell, and freewill are major Zoroastrian concepts that long predate Judaism and Christianity. Zoroastrianism's holy text is called the Avesta. The Avesta asserts that Ahura Mazda is the eternal, uncaused, transcendent, maximally wise, and all-good God who is the supreme creator and sustaining force of the universe through the use of divine entities. The spiritual force for truth and the cosmic order which comes from Ahura Mazda is known as Asha. Falsehood and disorder is the antithesis of Asha and is known as Druj. The pending conflict between order and chaos involves all of creation where humanity will have an active role to play. According to the Avesta, you are given the choice to support Ahura Mazda or not and are held responsible for your choice. After evil is defeated by the messiah at then end of time, reality will undergo a cosmic renovation where the souls of the dead will be resurrected to an eternal existence with Ahura Mazda in heaven. Any of this seem familiar to you?

Anyway, since the earliest concept of "magic" seems to be tied to the practices of Zoroastrian priests, it is not identical to God's power in that context.

Excellent historical summary; however, in the context of this discussion the point is not the source of the magic words, but the concept of supernatural intervention, interrupting the natural order; i.e., the laws of physics, chemistry, etc. And in that sense, I see no difference in the 'magic' (as we use the word today in English) and the magic of alchemists, fairies, genies, Christians, or Zoroastrians.

OTOH, as i write it occurs to me you may have been making a more subtle point; that 'magic' to the Z's may have been the antithesis of 'magic' as we use the term today in the sense that they wanted to restore the natural order and prevent the chaos that is evil.

Which raises the further argument that supernatural intervention by a god is evil since it introduces chaos to an otherwise stable system of universal laws.

[SallyF]

This is how spellcasting really works … it's magic …!

"Cast A Magick Spell That Really Works!" -

FAQ
1. How do I cast a spell?
Answer:
After choosing the spell you want, fill in the name or names of those involved in the spell and provide any additional information that you feel is necessary. Afterwards, carefully review your spell (check for errors) and when you are sure this is the change that you want, select the 'Cast Spell' button.

2. How will I know when my spell has been cast?
Answer:
You will know when the spell has been cast because you will immediately feel the change come into your life. https://www.changeyourlifespells.com/about.php





One may send one's spell requests to a magic spellcaster … OR



And THEN ...!



It's a VERY similar process …

With VERY similar results.

And an exchange of money often helps the magic/miracle along.

[Danmark]

This is how spellcasting really works … it's magic …!

"Cast A Magick Spell That Really Works!" -

FAQ
1. How do I cast a spell?
Answer:
After choosing the spell you want, fill in the name or names of those involved in the spell and provide any additional information that you feel is necessary. Afterwards, carefully review your spell (check for errors) and when you are sure this is the change that you want, select the 'Cast Spell' button.

2. How will I know when my spell has been cast?
Answer:
You will know when the spell has been cast because you will immediately feel the change come into your life. https://www.changeyourlifespells.com/about.php

She can cast a spell on me anytime.

[SallyF]

It seems that if one has a magic ring, one can perform miracles …

Dear pastors and religious leaders, this is the ring that has turned many ministries and pastors lives today. It has helped many pastors get famous and churches gather lots of followers and not only followers but important people like government officials and big political leaders today , lots of synagogues and churches today are performing miracles and wonders , healing the sick by the help of this ring . http://doctormamaromwe.com/super-power- ... r-pastors/

I'm not familiar with Dr. Mamma Romwe's theology, but it seems that both the Jewish and Christian versions of "God" can be induced to send their miraculous powers through pastors and rabbis if they purchase her magic rings.

So - theologically speaking - there IS a difference between magic and miracle.

One obviously needs MAGIC before one can obtain MIRACLE …!

And - as it generally is in things theological - there is a monetary component.

I didn't enquire as to the price of my magic ring (I'm neither a pastor nor a rabbi) but …

Our results are guaranteed in 2 to 3 days and they are 100%. With money guaranteed back.

The churches I went to as a kid never guaranteed me any miracles ...

Let alone a money-back guarantee on all the stuff I was promised when my pocket money went into the collection

[Mithrae]

Seems to me that if there's a God, then the Big Bang is an instance of god's power... galaxies are god's power at work... molecular reactions are god's power at work. Basically everything that is and happens, ultimately is so because god caused it to be so, at least under the most common theistic theories.

Is that all magic? Certainly the Big Bang does fit the definition Zzxyz quoted as influencing the course of events by means mysterious and above/beyond the natural laws we know...