What was REALLY on offer (real or otherwise) by the writers of the Christian-Jewish propaganda in the first century of the Common Era …?
What do 21st Century Christians expect …?
Mansions in Heaven
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Mansions in Heaven
Post #1What was REALLY on offer (real or otherwise) by the writers of the Christian-Jewish propaganda in the first century of the Common Era …?
What do 21st Century Christians expect …?
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
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Elijah John
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Re: Mansions in Heaven
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]
Hopefully not what the "prosperity Gospel" preachers imagine. I think they often take verses like this too literally, as evidence that Jesus was rich, and for the rich.
But this parable pretty much contains the answer:
It should be enough to know that God's servants will be comforted and rewarded, even if we do not know exactly what form that reward will take;
The Kingdom's values are the inverse of the worlds, according to Scripture.
Hopefully not what the "prosperity Gospel" preachers imagine. I think they often take verses like this too literally, as evidence that Jesus was rich, and for the rich.
But this parable pretty much contains the answer:
It's not the metaphor of mansions that is important, and should not be taken literally. Rather, "the first shall be last and the last shall be first".
Luke 16:19-31 New International Version (NIV)
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’�
It should be enough to know that God's servants will be comforted and rewarded, even if we do not know exactly what form that reward will take;
The Kingdom's values are the inverse of the worlds, according to Scripture.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Re: Mansions in Heaven
Post #3[Replying to SallyF]
In John 14:2 Jesus spoke of a house with many rooms, not individual mansions. The image he used was not of privately owned homes where people could live separate from each other, but of a one house of God so large that all people could be living together.
In John 14:2 Jesus spoke of a house with many rooms, not individual mansions. The image he used was not of privately owned homes where people could live separate from each other, but of a one house of God so large that all people could be living together.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
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Zzyzx
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Post #4
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King James Bible
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Bold added
In the United States, 55% of survey respondents who read the Bible reported using the King James Version in 2014 https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Bible_translations_into_English
King James Bible
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Bold added
In the United States, 55% of survey respondents who read the Bible reported using the King James Version in 2014 https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Bible_translations_into_English
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Non-Theist
If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather
"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"
Non-Theist
If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather
"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"
Post #5
[Replying to Zzyzx]
μοναὶ
Literally, it means “individual dwellings.� It can mean rooms, homes, mansions or other personal dwellings.
The KJV translated the word as “mansions.�
Since Jesus said that these “individual dwellings� are in an οἰκίᾳ - that is, a house – the most likely translation is “rooms.�
Even if we translated μοναὶ as “mansions,� the KJV still says that all of these mansions are in a house, as opposed being separate buildings.
μοναὶ
Literally, it means “individual dwellings.� It can mean rooms, homes, mansions or other personal dwellings.
The KJV translated the word as “mansions.�
Since Jesus said that these “individual dwellings� are in an οἰκίᾳ - that is, a house – the most likely translation is “rooms.�
Even if we translated μοναὶ as “mansions,� the KJV still says that all of these mansions are in a house, as opposed being separate buildings.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
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Elijah John
- Savant
- Posts: 12143
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
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Post #7
Like a Zen koan. Metaphysical indeed.William wrote: William: It is meant to show the Nature of The Father House in relation to The Metaphysical. A House which holds many Mansions. A Paradox.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-
Zzyzx
- Site Supporter
- Posts: 25050
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
- Location: Bible Belt USA
- Has thanked: 33 times
- Been thanked: 50 times
Post #8
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They should be informed forthwith of their errors and corrections should be announced for the benefit of the poor souls who read and believe the KJV.
Of course, professional Bible translators and editors of the most used Bible in the US don't translate as well as anonymous internet posters.bjs wrote: μοναὶ
Literally, it means “individual dwellings.� It can mean rooms, homes, mansions or other personal dwellings.
The KJV translated the word as “mansions.�
Since Jesus said that these “individual dwellings� are in an οἰκίᾳ - that is, a house – the most likely translation is “rooms.�
They should be informed forthwith of their errors and corrections should be announced for the benefit of the poor souls who read and believe the KJV.
.
Non-Theist
If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather
"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"
Non-Theist
If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather
"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"
Re: Mansions in Heaven
Post #9OMG …!!!bjs wrote: [Replying to SallyF]
In John 14:2 Jesus spoke of a house with many rooms, not individual mansions. The image he used was not of privately owned homes where people could live separate from each other, but of a one house of God so large that all people could be living together.
And they call this "Heaven" …?!
Most Christians I know can't stand each other.
At least if you're a Mormon Christian, you get a whole planet to rule …
But …
Like so many things in ALL the Christianities …
Folks are dodging admitting what they believe is real, and what is just stuff that's been fabricated by imaginative minds …
And is sort of taken as being articles of faith …
Because while it LOOKS like obvious make-believe …
Some folks in the congregation don't KNOW it's possibly ALL just make-believe.
And ... just as we do with Santa for the kiddies …
We need to do for the faithful and their unwavering credulity …
Because it might upset them.
So perhaps we all just live a self-deluding, feel-good, distort it and leave-out-the-bits-we-don't-like lie …?
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
Re: Mansions in Heaven
Post #10SallyF wrote:
What was REALLY on offer (real or otherwise) by the writers of the Christian-Jewish propaganda in the first century of the Common Era …?
A package containing some of the drowned Gadarene swine perhaps? The beauty and failing of Christ's promises is we can fill in the blanks for ourselves. The Koran is more specific: heaven will have clean water and selections of fruit, just the thing to make Arab warriors thirst for paradise and of course - ignoring women and those of a gay perspective - there would be servile beauties waiting in what would seem to be a grand brothel, licensed of course.
These later details took advantage of Christ's vagueness about mansions and eyes not having seen and ears not hearing. Christians are meant to bring their own furniture - and they do.
