Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[Zzyzx]

.

Those words belong to the author of Matthew, not to Jesus: 'Matthew' changed the ambiguous wording of Mark 9:1 into the explicitly eschatological prediction of Mt 16:28 quoted above, and the prediction of Mt. 10:23 apparently comes entirely from the author's imagination as it's not found anywhere else, even in related passages of Jesus sending the apostles out to preach.

Whether or not Jesus himself predicted his return within his followers' lifetimes (or predicted a departure and return at all!) is not clear. The best evidence (such as it is) that he did preach something along those lines is the early and obvious belief of Paul that the end would come 'soon'; but Paul does not attribute that teaching to Jesus himself, and hadn't been a follower of the living Jesus in any case, but built his whole theology around a Jesus who was already departed.

I do not disagree.

If / since Matthew cannot be regarded as a reliable source of information and Paul/Saul had no personal knowledge of what Jesus may have said, WHERE can one find reliable reports of what Jesus actually said? Would that be 'John' (whoever that may have been) writing many decades later?

With 'Matthew', 'John' and Paul/Saul as questionable sources for the actual words of Jesus, what is left that can be relied upon?

[Mithrae]

If / since Matthew cannot be regarded as a reliable source of information and Paul/Saul had no personal knowledge of what Jesus may have said, WHERE can one find reliable reports of what Jesus actually said? Would that be 'John' (whoever that may have been) writing many decades later?

With 'Matthew', 'John' and Paul/Saul as questionable sources for the actual words of Jesus, what is left that can be relied upon?

Or more interestingly for Christians, since God evidently did not choose to provide any really reliable record of his supposed Messiah's words and deeds - far from it! - what might that imply about God's priorities and intentions?

[Diogenes]

[Replying to post 263 by wannabe]

'Matthew' unequivocally believed that Jesus would return in his apostles' lifetimes:

• Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
  
  Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus failed to fulfill his central prophesy.
Christianity flourished despite this glaring failure.
This represents a triumph of organization over truth.

Those words belong to the author of Matthew, not to Jesus: 'Matthew' changed the ambiguous wording of Mark 9:1 into the explicitly eschatological prediction of Mt 16:28 quoted above, and the prediction of Mt. 10:23 apparently comes entirely from the author's imagination as it's not found anywhere else, even in related passages of Jesus sending the apostles out to preach.
~~~~

Agreed; we do not know what Jesus said, only what anonymous authors wrote. But if one cannot trust the gospels for an accurate portrayal of Jesus, doesn't the foundation of Christianity fail? It also fails if we accept Jesus as having predicted his return within a generation, as at Matthew predicted, along with others.

[Goose]

You may be right, a V-shaped recovery may no longer be a possibility. However, it's still a little early into the recession to say that concretely.

The signs are pretty obvious to me that a V-shaped (or any shaped) recovery is not possible.

The economic signs seem to suggest that not only is a recovery possible but that a recovery may have already commenced.

This morning's employment report shows the US unexpectedly added 2.5 million jobs in May

Canada unexpectedly added 290k jobs in May as well

[DavidLeon]

People have long cried the end is near like the boy who cried wold. The wolf eventually came, but the boy's cry did no good for his cause. People shouldn't say the end is near, at least not by our standards. Good intentions often bring bad results. Life is short, so, once you die the end of the system will be for you, in effect, very near.

The King James Version reads the latter portion of 2 Timothy 1:9 as "before the world began." Various translations differ: YLT "Before the time of the ages" / NIV "before the beginning of time." / Douay-Rheims "before the times of the world." / ESV "before the ages began." What exactly does this term mean? Most people tend to think of it incorrectly as being before the creation of earth and man, meaning that all since then had been foreknown by God. That isn’t the case at all.

The Greek term katabole is used, and literally means a casting or laying down, which is the same definition for what we know as the F word. For example, throwing down a seed. At Hebrews 11:11 the term is applied to Sarah's being given the gift to "conceive" at a late age.

At Luke 11:50-51 Jesus gives us insight on when this term, the founding of the world, began. From the blood of Abel. Abel, of course, was the offspring of Adam and Eve, so this time began when the first human couple conceived and began the race of mankind.

The word "world" is translated from the Greek kosmos (meaning adornment, from which the English word cosmetic comes), which has various meanings. 1. Humankind as a whole. 2. The structure of the human circumstances into which one is born and lives and 3. The masses of humankind apart from God's servants.

So, in a sense we are all living in the same period as Abel, though he towards it’s beginning and we towards it’s conclusion. The founding of the world, in this sense, then, would be the period of time after Adam’s sin but before Adam and Eve conceived. This is the period of time in which God began to allow for the possibility of salvation from the harmful effects of Adam’s sin. Genesis 3:15, the first prophecy of the Bible, is often overlooked as the beginning of all of this because it is often viewed as strictly a pronouncement upon Adam and Eve and the Serpent. When actually it is the first indication that there would be a division of, in a sense of the word, worlds. Those siding with Satan’s seed; his "offspring" so to speak and those of Jehovah’s seed from the woman, his earthly organization of faithful followers who were proved to be rightly disposed or ordained as a class of people from that moment until the conclusion of the world. Put simply, there would be those for Jehovah and those against.

The same would apply to Ephesians 1:4-5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 as with 2 Timothy 1:9

[Deeogee]

[Replying to Willum in post #2]

We have been in the last days since (Acts 2:16,17).

Ac 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

"This is that" refers to (Acts 2:1-4).

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to Willum in post #2]

We have been in the last days since (Acts 2:16,17).

Ac 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

"This is that" refers to (Acts 2:1-4).

Correct. Well, actually since the event described in Acts 2:1-13). But yes, starting with verse 14, that was immediately after the aforementioned event. The coming of the Holy Spirit was the beginning of what we often interchangeably call the the last days, the Church Age, New Israel, and the Millennium. The length of this age is unknown, except to say it's the fullness of God's time in bringing elect Gentiles into Israel and removing the partial hardening that was placed upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles was brought in (represented by the Millennium of Revelation 20; 1000 signifies completeness). At the close of this age, Jesus will return, the Judgment will immediately follow, and then heaven and earth will be made one -- the New Heaven and New Earth of Revelation 21. But yes.

[Deeogee]

Jesus will return, then the judgment and then the Lord will DISSOLVE the earth (2Peter 3:10:11). There will be no 1000 year reign on earth (or any amount of time).

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[woodtick]

[Replying to Deeogee in post #276]

[woodtick]

[Replying to Deeogee in post #278]