Are we living in the last days?

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Are we living in the last days?

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Post by otseng »

JehovahsWitness wrote: From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.
For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

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Re: Re:

Post #371

Post by 2timothy316 »

Diagoras wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:45 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:29 pm Your opinion is noted.

Perhaps we could find agreement on which parts of my post were opinion though?
That God's warnings are fearmongering when really its people that are pushing the fearmongering.

I gave an illustration that there is a way out of death. No matter how death comes. Some see that as a hope for them as a way out of death and for them and the people they love. As you said, as it stands right now every human being will die. Yet I think there is a way out.

Yet it's sad if a person is experiencing fearmongering. I can't blame them too much because of the centuries of fire and brimstone false religion has vomited forth. However, if a person even slightly thinks there could be a way out of death then a person shouldn't allow fear or mistrust to stop them from investigating further to see if there really is a way to avoid death.

Then there are the people that are completely fine with dying. They have been listening to other types of groups other than religious groups that are telling them that death is just a part of life. They have no interest in getting off the road they are on. A person might use fear to get them off that road but of course we see that doesn't work hardly at all. Honestly, folks that are doing this fearmongering are not leading anyone to life but just another lane on the same road. In some cases a worse way of life. Most of the time neither does hope get them off that road as they have convinced themselves that there is no other road, other than the one that leads to death.

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Re: Are we living in the last days?

Post #372

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to otseng in post #371]

I believe in the New Testament's mission statement given by Matthews 6:9-13:
9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’
-Source: Bible Study Tools, https://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/6.html

In all honesty, the pandemic is only a (CRISPR?) flu with a mortality rate of appx. 3.5 %. In my eyes, there's medical Utopia for all diseases and with Best practice psychiatry and a host of technology such as the full package of lie-detectors and OR-gate testing/generation (data generation) of crime reports among other things, Humanity is facing an ever brighter future never seen before in history. See for example "Utopia for Realists: And How We Can Get There" by Rutger Bregman.

So I say: The Future is bright for most people! Especially 50 years from now!
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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Re: Are we living in the last days?

Post #373

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Aetixintro wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:34 am [Replying to otseng in post #371]

I believe in the New Testament's mission statement given by Matthews 6:9-13:
9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’
-Source: Bible Study Tools, https://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/6.html

In all honesty, the pandemic is only a (CRISPR?) flu with a mortality rate of appx. 3.5 %. In my eyes, there's medical Utopia for all diseases and with Best practice psychiatry and a host of technology such as the full package of lie-detectors and OR-gate testing/generation (data generation) of crime reports among other things, Humanity is facing an ever brighter future never seen before in history. See for example "Utopia for Realists: And How We Can Get There" by Rutger Bregman.

So I say: The Future is bright for most people! Especially 50 years from now!
So would it be fair to say you feel mankind is not facing anything unusual, that we are in fact living in the best of times and the future looks bright?




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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Are we living in the last days?

Post #374

Post by 2timothy316 »

Aetixintro wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:34 am [Replying to otseng in post #371]

I believe in the New Testament's mission statement given by Matthews 6:9-13:
9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’
-Source: Bible Study Tools, https://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/6.html

In all honesty, the pandemic is only a (CRISPR?) flu with a mortality rate of appx. 3.5 %.
Yet 3.5% of 7.6 billion is 266,000,000 deaths.
Think of 50 people you know and now choose which 2 are to die. It's ok, it's only 2, no big deal right?
In my eyes, there's medical Utopia for all diseases and with Best practice psychiatry and a host of technology such as the full package of lie-detectors and OR-gate testing/generation (data generation) of crime reports among other things, Humanity is facing an ever brighter future never seen before in history. See for example "Utopia for Realists: And How We Can Get There" by Rutger Bregman.

So I say: The Future is bright for most people! Especially 50 years from now!
Would you say we are getting closer to an age of worldwide Peace and Security?


(1 Thessalonians 5:3, Jeremiah 8:11, Matthew 24:21)

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Re: Are we living in the last days?

Post #375

Post by JehovahsWitness »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:27 am
Would you say we are getting closer to an age of worldwide Peace and Security?


(1 Thessalonians 5:3, Jeremiah 8:11, Matthew 24:21)
LOL ... now now Tim, you are leading the witness. In all seriousness, as mindboggling as it is, if 2020 taught me anything it is that people can be made to believe anything. We could all be chainned to a spit, being roadsted alive by the Devil himself and someone will tell us thing are looking good up. Still we should all keep in mind that even those if us that know scripture risk being taken in by the coming talk of P&S.

Momentus times we are living in,

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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Re:

Post #376

Post by Clownboat »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:11 pm
Diagoras wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:18 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:03 pm But there's reckoning coming for everyone, including myself.
I will concede that at some point in the future, I’ll die. And that’s true of every human. Do you mean that this ‘reckoning’ will happen at the point of death, or before?
It's like being on a road where you start seeing signs that say "Bridge Out Ahead 2000ft drop, death assured". If a person stays on that road I don't think they should expect anything different than a huge crash and death. So the reckoning is happening now by what course we are choosing now.

Meanwhile there is ramp off that dead end road that says, "Life assured turn here". That road is must safer than the road they are on. However, a person sees that narrow road but they don't chose it because it's narrow, they can't go as fast as they want on it, it has checkpoints looking for unsafe drivers and will require maintenance on their car before they can use the road. So they never turn off the dead end road because they like to drive their own way. Well, so be it they will get what they want but they will also get what is at the end of that road.
Heavens Gate members were just so super duper confident in their beliefs as well. Do you accept their beliefs?
If not, please note how you compare and notice where someone from the outside is seeing this comparison. If that is not enough, compare yourself to the Muslim that also is super duper confident in their chosen god belief as well.

You talk about a bridge being out as if you know it is real thing. In reality, you are no different than a Heavens Gate member or a Muslim making claims on behalf of some sort of entity. Many of us just want to know you aren't crazy to begin with. Can I assume you have not removed any body parts an behalf of your god? Next question, would you? Some Heavens Gate members castrated themeselves! Could you imagine doing such for your god? Is your level of belief less then Heavens Gate members?

One reason I know your beliefs to be wrong are that an all powerful god would do better then scare tactics to gain believers. No reckonings or threats of eternal torture would be needed. Just the justification provided by said all powerful god. Scare tactics would be left to the terrorists is my take.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Re:

Post #377

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to Clownboat in post #377]

Your opinion of the future has been noted.
Let what comes in the future prove who is right and who is wrong.

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Re: Re:

Post #378

Post by Diagoras »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:29 amI gave an illustration that there is a way out of death. No matter how death comes. Some see that as a hope for them as a way out of death and for them and the people they love. As you said, as it stands right now every human being will die. Yet I think there is a way out.
You think there’s a ‘way out’ of death, then. The fear of which possibly drives a significant proportion of all religious thought at some subliminal, if not conscious level, as death is perhaps the ‘greatest unknown’. When all the scientific evidence points to death being ‘the final end’, it’s fine for some people to cling to hope for something better. Not everyone is comfortable with the idea that they live but a brief time, after all.

Consider the quote:
Macbeth Act V Scene 5 wrote:To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


2timothy316 wrote:Then there are the people that are completely fine with dying. They have been listening to other types of groups other than religious groups that are telling them that death is just a part of life. They have no interest in getting off the road they are on. A person might use fear to get them off that road but of course we see that doesn't work hardly at all. Honestly, folks that are doing this fearmongering are not leading anyone to life but just another lane on the same road.
<bolding mine>

Are we agreeing that trying to convert non-believers to Christianity by the use of fear doesn’t work? I hope so. I’d think that this was quite effective in the past, and still works to an extent on less well educated people, but the trend is most likely a close inverse correlation with intelligence.
2timothy316 wrote:Let what comes in the future prove who is right and who is wrong.
For this to have any practical use to us, you’ll have to be a lot more specific. I’ve argued upthread (with sources ands statistics) that the average quality of life of the world’s population has been increasing rapidly over the last forty to fifty-odd years. I predict that trend to continue, with continuous breakthroughs in medicine, energy and technology benefiting millions of people around the globe. Whether this site is around in 2041 and still has people posting the equivalent of “the end of the world is nigh!” is less certain, but I do concede that such doomsayers will still exist and be peddling the same message of fear mixed with the snake oil of redemption.

Good luck to them - I expect their warnings will increasingly fall on deaf ears.

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Re: Re:

Post #379

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:46 pm I’ve argued upthread (with sources ands statistics) that the average quality of life of the world’s population has been increasing rapidly over the last forty to fifty-odd years. I predict that trend to continue, with continuous breakthroughs in medicine, energy and technology benefiting millions of people around the globe.
So.... without trying to put words in your mouth, would it be fair to say regarding mankind's situation believe thing are good now and will get better in the future?
Aetixintro wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:34 am In my eyes, there's medical Utopia for all diseases and with Best practice psychiatry and a host of technology such as the full package of lie-detectors and OR-gate testing/generation (data generation) of crime reports among other things, Humanity is facing an ever brighter future never seen before in history.

This is all very fascinating to me.

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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Re:

Post #380

Post by 2timothy316 »

Diagoras wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:46 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:29 amI gave an illustration that there is a way out of death. No matter how death comes. Some see that as a hope for them as a way out of death and for them and the people they love. As you said, as it stands right now every human being will die. Yet I think there is a way out.
You think there’s a ‘way out’ of death, then.
That's what I have read.
"And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” - Rev 21:4
The fear of which possibly drives a significant proportion of all religious thought at some subliminal, if not conscious level, as death is perhaps the ‘greatest unknown’. When all the scientific evidence points to death being ‘the final end’, it’s fine for some people to cling to hope for something better. Not everyone is comfortable with the idea that they live but a brief time, after all.
I have read exactly what death is, it is not unknown to me and I do not fear it. Both science and the Bible are in agreement. "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all...there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." - Ecc 9:5, 10

I have also read that life is fleeting, "In themselves the days of our years are seventy years; and if because of special mightiness they are eighty years, yet their insistence is on trouble and hurtful things; for it must quickly pass by, and away we fly.” - Psalm 90:10
2timothy316 wrote:Then there are the people that are completely fine with dying. They have been listening to other types of groups other than religious groups that are telling them that death is just a part of life. They have no interest in getting off the road they are on. A person might use fear to get them off that road but of course we see that doesn't work hardly at all. Honestly, folks that are doing this fearmongering are not leading anyone to life but just another lane on the same road.
<bolding mine>

Are we agreeing that trying to convert non-believers to Christianity by the use of fear doesn’t work? I hope so. I’d think that this was quite effective in the past, and still works to an extent on less well educated people, but the trend is most likely a close inverse correlation with intelligence.
It worked for a little while until people gained access to the Bible after centuries of it being kept from people under pain of death. When Christendom lost it's ability to burn, hang, and torture the fearmongering grip it had loosened. It still works on many people uneducated and well educated. There are people with PHDs in all sorts of fields that still believe in hell. Don't underestimate the power of tradition and peer/family pressure.
2timothy316 wrote:Let what comes in the future prove who is right and who is wrong.
For this to have any practical use to us, you’ll have to be a lot more specific.
All of what is to come is in this thread.
Good luck to them - I expect their warnings will increasingly fall on deaf ears.
Agreed. Yet some will listen and want what comes after the last days which I quoted at the beginning of this reply. I already know the numbers will be few for life and many for death. “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.”​—Matt. 7:13, 14.

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