Are we living in the last days?

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otseng
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Are we living in the last days?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

JehovahsWitness wrote: From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.
For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

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Diagoras
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Re: Re:

Post #391

Post by Diagoras »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:21 am I do believe I asked for a screenshot or a reference to a scientific article discussing the concept of resurrection (not death), do you have one? The article you posted made no statement whatsoever about returning someone that is dead back to life one way or the other.
No, I cannot at the moment point you to any paper submitted to or published by a reputable scientific journal that ‘discusses the concept of resurrection’. Such articles may exist, of course. Absence of evidence, and all that. But their apparent scarcity should then lend support to the premise that scientific theory does differ from the bible in this regard: one fully believes in it on the basis of some two-thousand-year-old writings and treats it as one of the fundamental underpinnings of its dogma; the other is largely silent on the matter, treating it as worthy of only speculative musings on future technology.

That ‘silence’ is of course backed by the very large accumulated body of evidence for ‘death’ being final. Which is why scientists tend to approach the topic more often like this writer:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... urrection/

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Re: Re:

Post #392

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:03 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:21 am I do believe I asked for a screenshot or a reference to a scientific article discussing the concept of resurrection (not death), do you have one? The article you posted made no statement whatsoever about returning someone that is dead back to life one way or the other.
No, I cannot at the moment point you to any paper submitted to or published by a reputable scientific journal that ‘discusses the concept of resurrection’.
Okay, its big of you to admit that. When you can I will of course consider taking your claim seriously. In the meantime, thank you for sharing your opinion.




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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Re:

Post #393

Post by Diagoras »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:54 am
Diagoras wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:46 pm I’ve argued upthread (with sources ands statistics) that the average quality of life of the world’s population has been increasing rapidly over the last forty to fifty-odd years. I predict that trend to continue, with continuous breakthroughs in medicine, energy and technology benefiting millions of people around the globe.
So.... without trying to put words in your mouth, would it be fair to say regarding mankind's situation <you> believe thing<s> are good now and will get better in the future?
Absolutely. For a rather broad and global range of ‘situations’, obviously.

Have a play with some global indicators here:

https://www.gapminder.org/tools/

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Re: Re:

Post #394

Post by Diagoras »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:11 am
Diagoras wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:03 am No, I cannot at the moment point you to any paper submitted to or published by a reputable scientific journal that ‘discusses the concept of resurrection’.
Okay, its big of you to admit that. When you can I will of course consider taking your claim seriously. In the meantime, thank you for sharing your opinion.


I had similar difficulty in finding reputable scientific papers on unicorns and dragons, despite them both being referenced more than once in the Bible, e.g:

KJV Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows

KJV Isaiah 13:22
And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses,
And dragons in their pleasant palaces:
And her time is near to come,
And her days shall not be prolonged.


My opinion is that science and the Bible differ widely on the existence of unicorns and dragons, but - by your argument - until I can show a scientific paper on them, you won’t take me seriously.

My loss, I guess.

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Re: Re:

Post #395

Post by 2timothy316 »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:59 pm
2timothy316 wrote:If you have interest then read the thread.
Not that much, to be honest.
Then I wish you a good rest of your day.

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Re: Re:

Post #396

Post by Clownboat »

Diagoras wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:34 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:11 am
Diagoras wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:03 am No, I cannot at the moment point you to any paper submitted to or published by a reputable scientific journal that ‘discusses the concept of resurrection’.
Okay, its big of you to admit that. When you can I will of course consider taking your claim seriously. In the meantime, thank you for sharing your opinion.


I had similar difficulty in finding reputable scientific papers on unicorns and dragons, despite them both being referenced more than once in the Bible, e.g:

KJV Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows

KJV Isaiah 13:22
And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses,
And dragons in their pleasant palaces:
And her time is near to come,
And her days shall not be prolonged.


My opinion is that science and the Bible differ widely on the existence of unicorns and dragons, but - by your argument - until I can show a scientific paper on them, you won’t take me seriously.

My loss, I guess.
I don't understand what is going on here.

Diagoras showed why JehovahsWitness's thinking was illogical. Rather than amending ones thinking, the post was liked by said person. It's like being proud of using bad reasoning. Surely something is amiss?

That fact that there are no scientific papers on unicorns, dragons or resurrections is very telling. Guess what else we don't have scientific papers for? Everything else we can imagine.

No scientific study on a subject certainly doesn't lend credibility to the subject being true, it should give a person pause and make them think as to why there are no papers on globdarts. The reason for this is due to science starting with making observations. When there are no observations that might point to a dragon, unicorn, resurrection or globdart, then why imagine such an explanation? Religious people will do it so they can be right, but the reasoning is still faulty.

Is it not like celebrating ignorance?
:confused2:
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Re: Re:

Post #397

Post by Difflugia »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:21 amYou claim that science and the bible differ widely regarding concepts such as .... resurrection so I am asking you to prove that by providing scientific articles discussing the concept of resurrection. Do you have any evidence to prove your claim?

I made no claim so am under no obligation to provide any material to support anything.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:11 am
Diagoras wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:03 amNo, I cannot at the moment point you to any paper submitted to or published by a reputable scientific journal that ‘discusses the concept of resurrection’.
Okay, its big of you to admit that. When you can I will of course consider taking your claim seriously. In the meantime, thank you for sharing your opinion.
Seriously? That is how your epistemology works? Though I suspect that not even you require such "proof" before disbelieving every possible combination of words ("Do scientists have an opinion about the white apes of Barsoom? Prove it!"), the fact that you would even voice this as a serious argument in concert with your apparently carefully crafted non-claim claims can only be taken as an attempt at gaslighting in place of actual debate.

It's not the admissions of Diagoras that are damning.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re:

Post #398

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to otseng in post #4]

I suggest that you study up on places like Denmark before commenting on what you think socialism is.

If we're near an end, we've been brought to it by an unfettered system of global capitalism which has mired the world's work force in serfdom and used its billions to buy the loyalty of the governments whose evils you list. It seems to me that those who expect a Biblical apocalypse and who take what Jesus said about the love of money seriously should put two and two together.

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Re: Are we living in the last days?

Post #399

Post by 2timothy316 »

It's been over a year since this thread was started. Anyone doubling down on what they believe or have there been any changes in people's view of the times we are living in?

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Re: Are we living in the last days?

Post #400

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #399]

The economic impact of the U.S. government's debt ceiling not being raised in about a fortnight's time (if that should happen) would be felt globally. I suspect for many, it would feel like the end of the world.

Likewise, losing both your FaceBook and Instagram feeds in one day will be - for many - a clear sign of impending doom.

However, unlike Bill Bryson's childhood, I've never been required to practice 'nuclear attack drills' at school, when the fear of a Soviet missile strike out of the blue was both real and pervasive.

If you asked me whether next month's going to be better or worse, I'd be reluctant to put money on that. But in response to the OP, I'm comfortable restating my position. Potential GFC#2 notwithstanding, the broad trend of global conditions improving is sure to continue.

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