One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25089
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 73 times

One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

.
One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Thanks to Brunumb for mentioning 'compelling reason to believe' in a current thread.

Do Christians have compelling reason to believe the God tales? There MUST be something more than 'This book says so', or 'My preacher says so', or 'I want to go to heaven after I die', or 'Everyone I know believes' – isn't there?

I venture a guess that there is not a compelling reason to be offered for believing in the Bible God. Prove me wrong – state the reason. (Kindly differentiate between a compelling reason and a personal preference or wishful thinking).
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

Realworldjack
Guru
Posts: 2362
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:52 pm
Location: real world
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Post #51

Post by Realworldjack »

[Replying to post 46 by Zzyzx]
When encountering information that may be true or may be false, does an intelligent / reasoning person 'bet the farm' on the information being true and accurate? (Do they make important life decisions assuming the information is correct?) If so, why?
You continue to make the same old tire, and worn out arguments, which are extremely weak. As an example, I could ask you the same question.

When encountering information that may be true or may be false, does an intelligent / reasoning person 'bet the farm' on the information being false and inaccurate? (Do they make important life decisions assuming the information is incorrect?) If so, why?

No, they do not. Rather, they would examine all the facts, and evidence involved, in an attempt to make a reasoned, informed decision. If you believe you have done this, then I have no problem with whatever it is you decide is the best decision for you, and I do not insist that you should, or must make the same decision that I make.
Is there any valid reason for haste in making a decision regarding the Christian 'God'?
Not as far as I am concerned. As far as I am concerned, I have no interest at all in you making any sort of decision concerning the "Christian God" so there certainly is not any sort of rush.

Realworldjack
Guru
Posts: 2362
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:52 pm
Location: real world
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Post #52

Post by Realworldjack »

[Replying to post 47 by brunumb]
Having a bunch of unverified claims is not much of a hook to hang your hat on.
And here is another tired, and worn out argument. The fact of the matter is, it is a fact we have the claims made in the NT. It would also be a fact that there is a reason we have the claims. Somehow, you seem convinced the claims would be false, but you have no way whatsoever to demonstrate this to be the case. So then, you do not seem to have "much to hang your hat on yourself", accept the hope, and assumption the claims would be false, because you certainly have not demonstrated the claims to be false.

Hopefully, you have actually examined the facts, and evidence involved, and have become convinced by these facts, and evidence that the claims would be false. If this is the case, then we both have examined the facts, and evidence, and have arrived to different conclusions. I have no problem with this in the least.
Making important life choices based on accepting claims as true simply because they have not been shown to be false seems quite foolish to me.
I have never suggested that I accept the claims to be true, simply because they have not been demonstrated to be false. That would surely be foolish. The only reason I bring up the fact that the claims have not been demonstrated to be false, is to demonstrate that the argument that the claims have not been demonstrated to be true, is no argument at all, since the claims have not been demonstrated to be false.

In other words, those who make this argument seem to be suggesting that they will not believe something unless it can be demonstrated to be true. However, the claims in the NT being false, has not been demonstrated to be true, and yet there are those who seem to have no problem accepting the idea that this would be true.
That's how gullible people end up losing their savings on the basis of promises made by some anonymous Nigerian prince.
Allow me to rest your mind as far as I am concerned, because I will assure you there is no danger in me losing my life savings because of the fact that I have been convinced the claims in the NT would be true.

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25089
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Post #53

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Realworldjack wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: When encountering information that may be true or may be false, does an intelligent / reasoning person 'bet the farm' on the information being true and accurate? (Do they make important life decisions assuming the information is correct?) If so, why?
You continue to make the same old tire, and worn out arguments, which are extremely weak.
As always, I present ideas for readers to consider – such as to point out that religious proclamations, claims, and tales are presented without verifiable evidence to support their truth and accuracy. Their religions / preachers may well have NOT informed them that the doctrine and dogma is not supported by anything more than 'take my word for it (or his or this book)'. Many seem shocked to learn that Christian scholars and theologians dispute the authorship of Gospels, for instance.
Realworldjack wrote:
When encountering information that may be true or may be false, does an intelligent / reasoning person 'bet the farm' on the information being false and inaccurate?
That would be just as foolish as the reverse. Don't bet the farm unless your information is rock solid and verified. Only a fool would make that big a bet on 'maybe'.
Realworldjack wrote:
(Do they make important life decisions assuming the information is incorrect?) If so, why?
A reasoned response to questionable information that cannot be verified is to defer decision until verifiable information becomes available – unless there is compelling reason to act with haste.

In the case of decisions regarding 'gods', the only people pushing for a decision 'without delay' are those promoting god tales – and citing those tales as the reason to make a decision.
Realworldjack wrote:
No, they do not. Rather, they would examine all the facts, and evidence involved, in an attempt to make a reasoned, informed decision.
A wise person might ask, “Is there a compelling reason for me to make a decision on this matter?�
Realworldjack wrote:
If you believe you have done this, then I have no problem with whatever it is you decide is the best decision for you, and I do not insist that you should, or must make the same decision that I make.
Ditto
Realworldjack wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: Is there any valid reason for haste in making a decision regarding the Christian 'God'?
Not as far as I am concerned. As far as I am concerned, I have no interest at all in you making any sort of decision concerning the "Christian God" so there certainly is not any sort of rush.
I do not present ideas for consideration by you alone. In fact, opposition debaters are just a convenient means to give readers the opportunity to compare Theistic vs. Non-Theistic presentations.

Many people from real life and from debate convey the impression that one MUST make a decision (preferably favorable) 'before it is too late'. I point out to readers that there is no verifiable evidence to indicate that a decision is important – any more important than choosing what clothes to wear when home alone.
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

Realworldjack
Guru
Posts: 2362
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:52 pm
Location: real world
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Post #54

Post by Realworldjack »

[Replying to post 51 by Zzyzx]
As always, I present ideas for readers to consider – such as to point out that religious proclamations, claims, and tales are presented without verifiable evidence to support their truth and accuracy.
And this is certainly fine, and I have no problem with this. I am simply pointing to the fact that, the overwhelming majority of the NT can be demonstrated to have been addressed to particular audiences at the time, who would have already been believers, and therefore the authors were not attempting to present verifiable evidence to support their beliefs, since those who were being addressed would have already been believers. So then, on what basis do we simply dismiss the claims as being false? We do not, and we cannot. We also do not assume the claims would be true, but we would have to acknowledge the fact that these writings would indeed be evidence, especially since they were not intended to persuade anyone the claims would be true. Therefore, there are some who sit down on order to determine what all would have to be involved in order for the reports to be false, as opposed to what all would have to be involved in order for the claims to be true, while there are others who simply assume the claims would be true, along with those who simply assume the claims would be false.

Allow me to make this clear one more time. I am not insisting the claims would be true. Rather, I am insisting there are facts, evidence, and reasons to believe the claims, which means there are reasons to believe the claims. Now, would this mean there would be no facts, and evidence which may suggest the claims would be false. Well no! There very well may be evidence, facts, and reasons to believe the claims to be false. However, this would not negate the fact that there are indeed very good reasons to believe the claims.

As an example, I bought my first house from my aunt, and uncle. They left some things in my attic, and one day while I was in the attic, I ran across some letters addressed to my aunt, from here sister, who lived in another town, and these letters were dated in the 1940's. These letters were none of my business, but because these letters were so old, curiosity got the best of me, and before I knew it, I had spent hours right there in my attic, devouring these letters.

When I came to my senses, I realized that I had just read history, and could have wrote a book, or made a movie which would be based upon a true story. In fact, this is the exact way in which we believe we know much about history, because of letters which have been written between different folks throughout history. Of course, we cannot demonstrate that what would be written in these letters would be true, but we are confident we can know what happened in history, because of these letters.

So then, I do not have any reason whatsoever to doubt the content of the letters I read to my aunt, and there was certain facts, and evidence in these letters which would support the idea they would have been based in fact. So, what reason would we have to doubt the content of the NT?

Of course you will say that it would be the miraculous content. However, if we were to strip all the miraculous content from these reports, would we have any problem believing this is the way Christianity began, by following the teachings of Jesus?

Realworldjack
Guru
Posts: 2362
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:52 pm
Location: real world
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: One compelling reason to believe in the Christian God?

Post #55

Post by Realworldjack »

[Replying to post 51 by Zzyzx]
As always, I present ideas for readers to consider – such as to point out that religious proclamations, claims, and tales are presented without verifiable evidence to support their truth and accuracy. Their religions / preachers may well have NOT informed them that the doctrine and dogma is not supported by anything more than 'take my word for it (or his or this book)'.
It is true that there are many Christians who do not think for themselves, and simply take the word of others. Many of these Christians, wake up one day, and realize this to be the case, and go from taking the word of a certain group, to simply taking the word of another group.
Many seem shocked to learn that Christian scholars and theologians dispute the authorship of Gospels, for instance.
Correct! And this a,one should certainly demonstrate one who has not done a whole lot of thinking on their own, because it certainly should not be a shock to anyone who has actually done any sort of research at all. Therefore, they go from taking the word of those in the Church, to simply taking the word of the scholars.
That would be just as foolish as the reverse. Don't bet the farm unless your information is rock solid and verified. Only a fool would make that big a bet on 'maybe'.
My friend, there is a tremendous difference on making a bet on the odds, as opposed to analyzing the facts, and evidence involved in order to determine what all would have to be involved, in order for the claims to be true, as opposed to what all would have to be involved in order for the claims to be false, and making a decision based upon the facts, and evidence, as opposed to simply rolling the dice. Some do this investigation, and come to the conclusion the claims would be false, others come to the conclusion there is not enough evidence to make a stand one way or the other, while others come to the conclusion the claims would be true.

Post Reply