The Grace of the Lord Jesus be With All

[SallyF]

The very first words of biblical "scripture": "In the beginning Jehovah and/or Jesus and/or the Holy Ghost created the Heaven and the Earth" have been shown in other threads to have not a scrap of independently verifiable evidence to back them up.

The very last words in Christian versions of "scripture" are:

“The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen� (Rev. 22:21)

This is a splendid verse with which to choose the meaning of words …!

Can we demonstrate that the grace of the Lord Jesus has been with all for the past two thousand years or so …?

[Elijah John]

The very first words of biblical "scripture": "In the beginning Jehovah and/or Jesus and/or the Holy Ghost created the Heaven and the Earth" have been shown in other threads to have not a scrap of independently verifiable evidence to back them up.

For someone to say that the Trinity created the Heavens and the Earth is revisionism. The writers had no conception of the Trinity. Only YHVH and the Spirit of the LORD (YHVH) which was not a separate "Person", but rather simply YHVH's immanence and His active force. A blatant example of revisionism is the Amplified Bible, which credits Creation to the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".

The very last words in Christian versions of "scripture" are:

“The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen� (Rev. 22:21)

This is a splendid verse with which to choose the meaning of words …!

Can we demonstrate that the grace of the Lord Jesus has been with all for the past two thousand years or so …?

No.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 2 by Elijah John]

A blatant example of revisionism is the Amplified Bible, which credits Creation to the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".

Which is a BEAUTIFUL example of people just makin' stuff up.

We may then ask ourselves which bits of biblical "scripture" are NOT people just makin' stuff up …?

And we may remind ourselves than in another recent thread, not a soul was able to demonstrate that so much as a single biblical STORY was anything other than people just makin' stuff up.

I think your answer of "No" to the OP question is quite the right one.

It would possibly then just come down to IMAGINING that what one perceives as "grace" is coming from Jesus …

Or Krishna …

Or Allah …

Or Fairies.

[1213]

...
“The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen� (Rev. 22:21)

This is a splendid verse with which to choose the meaning of words …!

Can we demonstrate that the grace of the Lord Jesus has been with all for the past two thousand years or so …?

I think that people still exist shows that grace has been on us.

[marco]

Can we demonstrate that the grace of the Lord Jesus has been with all for the past two thousand years or so …?

Yes. The world is now free of earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunamis, thank God. There is absolutely nothing to fear from some asteroid hitting us, no threat from pandemics, and all forms of cancer have been eradicated. Didn't Jesus do well.

The grace of Jesus has successfully enabled some people to close their eyes when lightning strikes or their ears when the earth rumbles. Jesus after all has destroyed death so that funerals are optical illusions.

If Jesus had not descended on Nazareth how different would things have been? Would the Black Death have been worse? Would world wars have been bloodier? Things have moved in exactly the way we would have expected had Jesus not come. Somebody else, maybe called Jim Jones, would have gathered groups together and said good things. Or maybe some Arab would have chatted with God and sold religion to most of the world.

The grimoire that is Revelation has nothing to tell us; it is as revealing as pile of soot..

[SallyF]

...
“The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen� (Rev. 22:21)

This is a splendid verse with which to choose the meaning of words …!

Can we demonstrate that the grace of the Lord Jesus has been with all for the past two thousand years or so …?

I think that people still exist shows that grace has been on us.

So you CAN'T demonstrate that Jesus had anything to do with it ….

And nor can anyone else.

From the very first sentence of the biblical propaganda to the very last …

Not a soul EVER demonstrates that the direct influence of Jehovah or Jesus or the Holy Ghost on humanity is ANYTHING more than make-believe.

[SallyF]

The very first words of biblical "scripture": "In the beginning Jehovah and/or Jesus and/or the Holy Ghost created the Heaven and the Earth" have been shown in other threads to have not a scrap of independently verifiable evidence to back them up.

The very last words in Christian versions of "scripture" are:

“The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen� (Rev. 22:21)

This is a splendid verse with which to choose the meaning of words …!

Can we demonstrate that the grace of the Lord Jesus has been with all for the past two thousand years or so …?

I thought this one should be slipped back up to the top for a moment's consideration ….

It certainly seems to me that, well, no we can't demonstrate that the grace of the Lord Jesus has been with all for the past two thousand years or so.

Anything to do with Jesus only seems to be happening inside the heads of believers.

Which is one of the reasons I'm an Atheist …

And I argue against Christianity.