Was Jesus crystal clear?

[marco]

Jesus played with figurative language: lambs, shepherds, goats and sheep, harvesting, missing money, silly virgins, ungrateful lepers and nice Samaritans. He never said direct things like:

"I'm not God, just a representative who has learned scripture."

"The holy Spirit I speak of is the personification of inspiration and moral support."

"It was wrongly reported that my Father asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. He would never ask such a wicked thing. Nor did he want infants slaughtered. "

"Heaven's not a physical place. You don't get there through ascensions."


Instead we are told his language can be understood only by those who have done a course in sheep talk. This to rational minds is nonsensical.

Why do you suppose Jesus spoke figuratively instead of being direct?
Can we regard his miracles as figurative too?

[brunumb]

God doesn’t allow sinners to know Him.

Job1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them."

Not only can they know him but it would seem that they are free to visit him whenever they want.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to marco in post #1]

Instead, we are told his language can be understood only by those who have done a course in sheep talk. This to rational minds is nonsensical.

Yes, many times over the Bible declares that those that do not hear the voice of the Lord do not understand His word.

Matthew 13:13
This is why I speak to them in parables: 'Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.'

Matthew 13:14
In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12
so that, 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.'"

Mark 8:18
Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear?' And do you not remember?

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them."

Acts 28:26
Go to this people and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see, and ears that could not hear, to this very day."

Isaiah 6:9
And He replied, "Go and tell this people: 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'

Isaiah 6:10
Make the hearts of this people calloused; deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.

He said the same thing to Nicodemus when he came to Him at night.

11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

So why would an unbeliever expect to understand heavenly things when they do not believe in heavenly things?

[Bobcat]

God doesn’t allow sinners to know Him.

Job1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them."

Not only can they know him but it would seem that they are free to visit him whenever they want.

How did they present themselves?

Job has a lot of figurative language. There is no other book that is quite like it so one must approach it differently.

[brunumb]

God doesn’t allow sinners to know Him.

Job1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them."

Not only can they know him but it would seem that they are free to visit him whenever they want.

How did they present themselves?

Job has a lot of figurative language. There is no other book that is quite like it so one must approach it differently.

OK then, please justify your claim and explain exactly how we are to approach Job1.

[Clownboat]

Yes, many times over the Bible declares that those that do not hear the voice of the Lord do not understand His word.

That's as silly as a book claiming that Allah cannot be understood unless you hear his voice. It is silly and nonsensical reasoning to be sure. It's also cult behavior to encourage obedience before belief IMO. Surely a god could do better?

So why would an unbeliever expect to understand heavenly things when they do not believe in heavenly things?

You just wont understand Santa Claus until you believe in Santa Claus.

This kind of reasoning works on children, but thinking adults should see through it IMO.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #65]

Earthscienceguy wrote:
Yes, many times over the Bible declares that those that do not hear the voice of the Lord do not understand His word.
That's as silly as a book claiming that Allah cannot be understood unless you hear his voice. It is silly and nonsensical reasoning to be sure. It's also cult behavior to encourage obedience before belief IMO. Surely a god could do better?
Earthscienceguy wrote:
So why would an unbeliever expect to understand heavenly things when they do not believe in heavenly things?
You just won't understand Santa Claus until you believe in Santa Claus.

This kind of reasoning works on children, but thinking adults should see through it IMO.

Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

[Tcg]

Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Paul was a clever fellow. Preloading Christians with excuses when their message is rejected. Too bad a double Ad Hominem was the extent of his argument.


Tcg

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Tcg in post #67]

Paul was a clever fellow. Preloading Christians with excuses when their message is rejected. Too bad a double Ad Hominem was the extent of his argument.

The opening question was, "Why did Jesus use figurative language?" And the answer to that question has been written in the Bible many times. Man cannot understand Biblical truth unless God opens a man's eyes. Like Paul on the Damascus road. The changing of a man's heart (in the Jewish sense) is one of the greatest miracles God has ever performed. And man cannot hope to understand the Bible unless his heart has been changed. So to those whose heart has not been changed the Bible is bathed in mystery. But to those whose heart has been changed the Bible is a life-giving word. Like Jesus said when He was being tempted in the wilderness, "Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God."

This is why the Bible likens a nonchristian to a dead man. A dead man cannot understand anything that is going on around him. He does not even perceive anything that is going on around him. Neither can a nonchristian understand the spiritual things going on around them.