Is ecstasy an indicator of truth?

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Tcg
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Is ecstasy an indicator of truth?

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

.
Approximately 40 years ago I, along with 50,000 or so others, attended a U2 concert. To close out that show they performed a song called "40." For those not familiar with their work, it is a song based on Psalm 40:
  • I waited patiently for the Lord
    He inclined and heard my cry
    He brought me up out of the pit
    Out of the mire and clay
    I will sing, sing a new song
    I will sing, sing a new song...

    He set my feet upon a rock
    And made my footsteps firm
    Many will see
    Many will see and fear
    I will sing, sing a new song
    I will sing, sing a new song...
I'd estimate that at least 40,000 people sang these words along with Bono. It was an astounding experience. I would not hesitate to describe it as an ecstatic experience.

Some claim that their experience is evidence that what they believe is true.

Would this ecstatic experience of mine qualify as evidence that the words Bono and the 40,000 sang were true?


Tcg
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

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Re: Is ecstasy an indicator of truth?

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Post by marco »

Tcg wrote: .


Would this ecstatic experience of mine qualify as evidence that the words Bono and the 40,000 sang were true?

Though ecstasy moves the planets I do not think that it oozes truth. I like Boyzone's secular declaration, so close to what Christ offered:


No matter what they tell us
No matter what they do
No matter what they teach us
What we believe is true
No matter what they call us
However they attack
No matter where they take us
We'll find our own way back.


The cry of martyrs and teenagers through the ages! My small daughter went to see Bambi and was so inconsolable she had to be carried from the cinema. A fiction generated deep feeling and yet people wonder how the stuff around Christ can be false when it evokes passion.

Tears and laughter make us beautifully human, not carriers of truth.

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Re: Is ecstasy an indicator of truth?

Post #3

Post by Tcg »

marco wrote:
A fiction generated deep feeling and yet people wonder how the stuff around Christ can be false when it evokes passion.
I am astounded by this insight.

Tears and laughter make us beautifully human, not carriers of truth.
Indeed. If I could experience that song again as it was sung then it would be to enjoy the laughter, not to find some truth I've since forgotten.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Is ecstasy an indicator of truth?

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Post by Realworldjack »

Tcg wrote:
marco wrote:
A fiction generated deep feeling and yet people wonder how the stuff around Christ can be false when it evokes passion.
I am astounded by this insight.

Tears and laughter make us beautifully human, not carriers of truth.
Indeed. If I could experience that song again as it was sung then it would be to enjoy the laughter, not to find some truth I've since forgotten.


Tcg

I am astounded by this insight.
Seriously? You mean to tell me that you are truly "astounded"? Are you attempting to tell us that you were unaware that your emotional response to something would have nothing to do with what you may be hearing being true? I assure you, there is nothing "astounding" about this in any way!

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Re: Is ecstasy an indicator of truth?

Post #5

Post by Tcg »

Realworldjack wrote:
Seriously? You mean to tell me that you are truly "astounded"?
Yes, seriously.

Are you attempting to tell us that you were unaware that your emotional response to something would have nothing to do with what you may be hearing being true?
No, I'm not. What gave you that false impression?
I assure you, there is nothing "astounding" about this in any way!
You are right. It is not unusual for posters to misrepresent what another has stated. There is nothing at all astounding about that occurrence.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Is ecstasy an indicator of truth?

Post #6

Post by Realworldjack »

[Replying to post 5 by Tcg]

Okay, maybe I have misunderstood you? As you say, it happens. So exactly what insight was it that would have "astounded" you? Forgive me if I misunderstood you, but could you explain this statement?
Indeed. If I could experience that song again as it was sung then it would be to enjoy the laughter, not to find some truth I've since forgotten.

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Post #7

Post by Overcomer »

Feelings are notoriously unreliable. This is why it's dangerous to listen to a five-year-old boy's claims that he feels like a girl and respond to his feelings by starting gender transition therapy. It's also why nobody, including Christians, should base their religious belief on feelings alone. There's a reason why God asks us to love him with our minds as well as our hearts (Matt. 22:37).

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