Without Jesus, I'm Nothing

[SallyF]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

[William]

I ain't got me no wimun pretty thing what I knowed moans more n like anatheists rantin 'bout churched folk, I declare.

I grew up in an area, and a time, where being a known atheist had me getting my fourth point of contact beat to Hell and back with a frequency I'd prefer to forget. To this day I struggle with severe anxiety in a crowd of just a few folks or more. Ya can't just simply forget the torment. It invades your thoughts, whether asleep or awake. I've lived what I speak.

Most recently - my "Guidance Counselor" explained it like this, to me.

Now Here it is revealed to you that We are important to your enquiry and you discover that You Are Nobodies Victim - Ever.

[Now she ought to know since she has been with me from the beginning.]

I did let old hate-face lead the pack for a bit, but he was never all inclusive so folk got hurt.
He was like The Devil Ye Know, constructing "those who need to complain" - it was hard at first to let him go, but he adapted to his new de-elevated position, surprisingly well. It is, after all, about correct placement - even when it comes to who gets to lead the pack - an important role where empathy and understanding are requirements.

If I counted all the wrongs life's experience has dealt me, I would have scant time for anything else.

I reckon old Hillbilly-Joe would laugh along with me 'bout this - I miss him when he ain't around...

[JoeyKnothead]

I ain't got me no wimun pretty thing what I knowed moans more n like anatheists rantin 'bout churched folk, I declare.

I grew up in an area, and a time, where being a known atheist had me getting my fourth point of contact beat to Hell and back with a frequency I'd prefer to forget. To this day I struggle with severe anxiety in a crowd of just a few folks or more. Ya can't just simply forget the torment. It invades your thoughts, whether asleep or awake. I've lived what I speak.

Most recently - my "Guidance Counselor" explained it like this, to me.

Now Here it is revealed to you that We are important to your enquiry and you discover that You Are Nobodies Victim - Ever.

[Now she ought to know since she has been with me from the beginning.]

I did let old hate-face lead the pack for a bit, but he was never all inclusive so folk got hurt.
He was like The Devil Ye Know, constructing "those who need to complain" - it was hard at first to let him go, but he adapted to his new de-elevated position, surprisingly well. It is, after all, about correct placement - even when it comes to who gets to lead the pack - an important role where empathy and understanding are requirements.

If I counted all the wrongs life's experience has dealt me, I would have scant time for anything else.

I reckon old Hillbilly-Joe would laugh along with me 'bout this - I miss him when he ain't around...

I've been down lately about the state of the world my grandirls're gonna inherit. Extremists here in America seem to have the upper hand across government and the courts. My own state, Georgia is staarting inject politics into the very mechanisms of voting. It's scary.

But a word from you is always a spirit lifter. Specially when ya offer a clip of the greatest show of all time

[William]

I've been down lately about the state of the world my grandirls're gonna inherit. Extremists here in America seem to have the upper hand across government and the courts. My own state, Georgia is staarting inject politics into the very mechanisms of voting. It's scary.

But a word from you is always a spirit lifter. Specially when ya offer a clip of the greatest show of all time

Its alright as long as I know Joey is there in the mix.

I like the intelligent fella and suspect he is not the hater but is influenced by the hater because he understands why the hater hates. That comes out into the world through those filters...my task here is to empathize and encourage - that the voices all listen to one another and come to an agreement as to - who shall represent the whole pack as the best choice for the job....the Scottish actually had an island for such disputes. Cheese and whiskey.

The Tiny Scottish Island Where Arguments Are Settled With Cheese and Whisky

I would discourage having the hater as overall leader...people get hurt when that happens...we can see that in the political antics you are describing.

Are Christians behind that stuff to the point where they are controlling and influencing?
Are other Christians keeping quite about that even that they do not agree with the policies been enacted and simply because those enacting them call themselves "Christians"??

Are Joey and William simply collateral damage or something else as yet not fully determined?
Can we do anything about these apparent Christian influences which seek to impose their beliefs onto us whether consensual or not?
Is venting on Christians in an under-the-radar internet forum going to change the situation any?

I prefer a good old outdoors campfire under the stars shrugging off all that drama for the sake of sanity. If one cannot beat 'em and will not join 'em, one can at least accept them for the crazy harmful folk they are, cause either way they will kill ye and curse ye rotten corpse never to raise again. [What is that to those of us free in Spirit?].
I am unwilling to go out with that kind of hater-attitude staining my soul. I say "Let 'em do their worst then and I will turn my other cheek to the campfire and have my actual fun there."



I say look that devil in the eye and without saying a word, make it clear to him'n'er that you see him'n'er in every detail and are still not impressed.



In the grand scheme of things, Earthside's tiny drama is insignificant. Nothing in particular.

There is no thing to hide from and no other safe place.

[JoeyKnothead]

Snippages have been snippages...

Are Christians behind that stuff to the point where they are controlling and influencing?

There's just not a lot of atheists clamoring to control the health decisions of the wimmins.

Here in the Bible Belt, and beyond, a vast swath of Christians are voting, and acting to invoke their own brand of Sharia law. I don't use that term as a gimmick, bit as an apt comparator.

There's also the issue of a conservative majority on the SC, and their ability to negate the precedents they so adore. (I personally reject the idea of precedent, but there we go.) In many areas, we're just an SC ruling away from rolling back Christian oppression of minority groups, from gay marriage, to atheists holding public office, to, again, women being considered equal in the eyes of the law.

So, as relates to the OP, I have a legitimate fret about this whole "without..nothing" notion. For centuries atheists and minorities were "nothing" if they didn't toe the prevailing religious majority line. Heck, there had to be a ruling to make black folks just 3/5ths of a human.

Are other Christians keeping quite about that even that they do not agree with the policies been enacted and simply because those enacting them call themselves "Christians"??

Quiet or not, some Christians are working to have their religious beliefs embedded into the law.

Are Joey and William simply collateral damage or something else as yet not fully determined?

I don't so much fret the plight of the male, heterosexual population over Christian Nationalism, as I fret it for so many of my fellow human beings.

Can we do anything about these apparent Christian influences which seek to impose their beliefs onto us whether consensual or not?

Vote early and often!

Is venting on Christians in an under-the-radar internet forum going to change the situation any?

This site is the premiere Christian debate site on the internet, if Google's to be trusted...

https://www.google.com/search?q=debatin ... &source=hp

I can only hope my message has some positive impact on my fellow humans.

I prefer a good old outdoors campfire under the stars shrugging off all that drama for the sake of sanity. If one cannot beat 'em and will not join 'em, one can at least accept them for the crazy harmful folk they are, cause either way they will kill ye and curse ye rotten corpse never to raise again. [What is that to those of us free in Spirit?].

I've never much been a "play along to get along" sort. Sometimes it's cathartic even if all one's efforts are for naught.

I hope I never just hush up in the face of injustice.

I am unwilling to go out with that kind of hater-attitude staining my soul. I say "Let 'em do their worst then and I will turn my other cheek to the campfire and have my actual fun there."

I've always considered the "hater" angle to be dismissive. Is it " hateful" to try to ensure justice and freedom are available to all?

I say look that devil in the eye and without saying a word, make it clear to him'n'er that you see him'n'er in every detail and are still not impressed.

I do, when I speak out against the -ahem- haters who'd try to restrict the rights and freedoms of others based on their opinion of a god they can't show exists having him one they can't show he does.

In the grand scheme of things, Earthside's tiny drama is insignificant. Nothing in particular.

I don't consider rights and freedoms insignificant.

There is no thing to hide from and no other safe place.

So I seek to ensure folks don't hafta hide simply cause they're different.

[Mattathias]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

I’m a Christian. I don’t make that claim and Christianity, as I understand it, doesn’t make that claim. That’s not to deny that there are Christians who do.

Is it a reasonable Christian claim? My answer is that it isn’t.

[nobspeople]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

I don’t make that claim and Christianity, as I understand it, doesn’t make that claim. That’s not to deny that there are Christians who do.

That's a good point. If christianity doesn't teach it, but (some) christians teach it and believe it, at what point can we legitimately say 'christianity teaches it'?
I saw it all the time: my grandparents were taught, via the bible and christianity, that marrying a different race is a sin. Yet, today, much of christianity says that's a non-issue. So it changed. When? Why? How?

[Eloi]

There is an intrinsic connection between knowing that God exists and has the right to tell us how to act (especially if he is a God who loves everything that is right and beneficial) ... and wanting to do what everyone sees fit. When humans invent systems of justice, they are only trying to substitute for God ...

Can you tie this into the thread subject?

Are you the one who opened the topic to determine precisely what the central subject is? This topic was opened over a year ago by a forum writer named SallyF ... The topic doesn't even have a specific issue to deal with except if the statement "without Jesus I'm nothing" is a reasonable claim from Christians. The "non-Christians" cannot even directly answer the question.

Since atheists want to change the issue to can you live without God? which is a different question ... so my answer makes sense regarding that atheist question.

[nobspeople]

There is an intrinsic connection between knowing that God exists and has the right to tell us how to act (especially if he is a God who loves everything that is right and beneficial) ... and wanting to do what everyone sees fit. When humans invent systems of justice, they are only trying to substitute for God ...

Can you tie this into the thread subject?

Are you the one who opened the topic to determine precisely what the central subject is? This topic was opened over a year ago by a forum writer named SallyF ... The topic doesn't even have a specific issue to deal with except if the statement "without Jesus I'm nothing" is a reasonable claim from Christians. The "non-Christians" cannot even directly answer the question.

Since atheists want to change the issue to can you live without God? which is a different question ... so my answer makes sense regarding that atheist question.

William:
seems the answer to your question is 'no'.


Eloi:

The "non-Christians" cannot even directly answer the question.

What specific question are you saying non-christians can't answer?

[William]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #54]

There's just not a lot of atheists clamoring to control the health decisions of the wimmins.

That is because atheism is about lack of belief in gods. That in itself has nothing to do with the health decisions of women. That is why there's just not a lot of atheists clamoring to support women's rights either.

See - its not able to be sorted by saying that atheists support women's rights, while theists - in this case "Christians" go out of their way to clamp down on those rights. That simplistic approach can only deliver false verdict on any judgement made through such filters.

Vote early and often!

Then the results will give what the majority desire. That is the way of the system of politics.

My take on it is that while all the squabbling continues, Mother Earth is the fat lady who sings, and one day all the stuff which was once squabbled about, will be forgotten as more pressing concerns envelope the Human situation. Its on the cards, if the information is correct.

All the fretting in the world won't change that outcome one inch my Firend.

[William]

There is an intrinsic connection between knowing that God exists and has the right to tell us how to act (especially if he is a God who loves everything that is right and beneficial) ... and wanting to do what everyone sees fit. When humans invent systems of justice, they are only trying to substitute for God ...

Can you tie this into the thread subject?

Are you the one who opened the topic to determine precisely what the central subject is? This topic was opened over a year ago by a forum writer named SallyF ... The topic doesn't even have a specific issue to deal with except if the statement "without Jesus I'm nothing" is a reasonable claim from Christians. The "non-Christians" cannot even directly answer the question.

Since atheists want to change the issue to can you live without God? which is a different question ... so my answer makes sense regarding that atheist question.

Okay - that makes sense - your comment/argument extends from the main OPQ because of the question "can you live without belief in gods?" - but is that what the expression "Without Jesus I Am Nothing" actually signifies? As I have argued, it signifies more than simply saying that "without belief in gods - I am Something!" From the point of Mysticism I see a far deeper level that the expression is coming from...but obviously the expression itself is ill defined because in actuality we all are nothing without Consciousness - so "Jesus" becomes "Consciousness" in that regard.