Without Jesus, I'm Nothing

[SallyF]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

[William]

Without Theism, who is there to treat us as 'something'?

And what 'something' would that person have to offer me, in relation to how they value me?

I see no answer to these questions coming from non-theism. So I remain were I am appreciated.

Does that concern you?

[SallyF]

Without Theism, who is there to treat us as 'something'?

And what 'something' would that person have to offer me, in relation to how they value me?

I see no answer to these questions coming from non-theism. So I remain were I am appreciated.

Does that concern you?

It concerns me that you avoided the topic and answered questions with questions.

The topic is quite clear and simple.

[Tcg]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

My first reaction to this is sadness. It is sad that anyone would not only view themselves this way, but consider it a positive to do so. Of course the Christian theology that views all humans as sinful is vital to the Christian view that humans need a savior and of course those who push this view are eager to present Jesus as that savior. Jesus would be a hard sell if there was nothing to be saved from.

Lest some get confused, this is not a theist versus atheist issue. Judaism, which still has a strong theist contingent, does not view humans as basically sinful. This very sad attitude towards humans and it's supposed resolution is very specific to Christianity.


Tcg

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Response to 'Without Jesus I am nothing�: Congratulations on your advancement; however, you don't appear to be anything special WITH Jesus (except perhaps in your own estimation).

This is comparable to claims that a 'holy' spirit grants knowledge and understanding to chosen people / believers – yet people making the claim for themselves appear to be mediocre in knowledge, understanding, and debate ability.

What are / were they without supernatural help – a box of rocks?

[SallyF]

A VERY good reason to argue against Christianity.

Not only is it - in my view - a fraud from the very start …

It's a mind and money trap to control the masses.

[marco]

Without Jesus I am nothing:


Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

It is ironic in that Jesus certainly magnifies the meek and the man on the London bus and without belief in a character who appears on stage for a couple of years and vanishes a zero would stay a zero. Jesus does not install brain cells nor change ugliness to beauty except in the game of pretense where there is no death, no funerals, no undertakers. Jesus has destroyed death. Hurrah!

Without Jesus we have to think of life insurance and visits to a doctor.

[marco]

Without Theism, who is there to treat us as 'something'?

I believe a golden retriever does a remarkable job, better than Jesus in that a dog is actually there. There are also things called human friends with whom one can go for a meal, enjoy a chat or indulge in something naughty, perhaps.

And what 'something' would that person have to offer me, in relation to how they value me?

Ask not what your friends can offer you, but what you can offer your friends!

I see no answer to these questions coming from non-theism. So I remain were I am appreciated.

Does that concern you?

Well it suggests you haven't listened but it's not a concern. We are here for such a short time it is best to occupy ourselves with what is rather than with what isn't.
Go well.

[pleinmont]

We are all something, which is human, we don't need religion to make our lives fulfilled. It didn't do me any good when I believed in Jesus.

[Difflugia]

Without Theism, who is there to treat us as 'something'?

The same people as with theism. Believing there's someone else doesn't actually affect his or her existence.

“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.�

I see no answer to these questions coming from non-theism. So I remain were I am appreciated.

There's a definite answer, it's just not as comforting. Whatever you thought was God was just you and your fellow travellers all along.

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I have become a man, I have put away childish things."