Without Jesus, I'm Nothing

[SallyF]

Is this a reasonable Christian claim …?

[Tcg]

According to atheism, we are 'nothing' in the same way as how I think this expression is being used.

Atheism is about one thing and one thing only; the lack of belief in god/gods. What any individual atheist thinks about our value or lack thereof is related only to their individual conclusion. It is in no way a teaching or dictate of atheism given that atheism has none.


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to Tcg in post #21]

Sure - theism is the same.

I have not yet met an atheist who argues that human life is somehow special and was using the attitude in general to covey the meaning it did - which was not really arguing that atheism is a platform for those types of atheists only.

I take it you are an atheist who sees value in Human existence? And even so, do not count that being an atheist has anything to do with why you see things that way?

[Diogenes]

[Replying to Tcg in post #21]

Sure - theism is the same.

I have not yet met an atheist who argues that human life is somehow special and was using the attitude in general to covey the meaning it did - which was not really arguing that atheism is a platform for those types of atheists only.

I take it you are an atheist who sees value in Human existence? And even so, do not count that being an atheist has anything to do with why you see things that way?

Why can't an atheist see value in homo sapiens? All life is 'special." Didn't God say in Genesis, that all of his creation was 'good?' Most of us love animals, or at least our pets. We see in them something special. We love them. We care for them. Is there some Biblical reference that suggests they are not 'special?' Or that they are inferior? Are we not stewards of this Earth?

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #21]

Sure - theism is the same.

I have not yet met an atheist who argues that human life is somehow special and was using the attitude in general to covey the meaning it did - which was not really arguing that atheism is a platform for those types of atheists only.

I take it you are an atheist who sees value in Human existence? And even so, do not count that being an atheist has anything to do with why you see things that way?

None of this even attempts to address the flaw in your claim. What I or other atheists think about the value of human life is irrelevant to atheism itself. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.


Tcg

[William]

I am unsure what your concern is. I have not meet anyone claiming to be an atheist who thinks that they are something in the way theist's do. That seems to be the essence of the OP subject. That Christians believe that without their belief in God (whatever that implies) they are "nothing".

No atheist I have ever met has ever claimed human beings are "something" taking into account of course the subject matter the OP is emphasizing.

If folk calling themselves atheists want to argue things outside of what atheism is, they are best to clarify what position they are arguing from if it is not strictly an atheist position.

If they do not do so then I don't see what possible problem they can have about issues to do with others misunderstanding about what atheist think about things.

[Tcg]

I am unsure what your concern is.

I've made it exceedingly clear. You made this flawed claim:

According to atheism, we are 'nothing' in the same way as how I think this expression is being used.

Atheism does not teach that we are "nothing." Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.


Tcg

[Bradskii]

If folk calling themselves atheists want to argue things outside of what atheism is, they are best to clarify what position they are arguing from if it is not strictly an atheist position.

I think there's a tendency by those of belief to misrepresent the concept of value and meaning held by those without belief. To the point of suggesting that atheists cannot have real meaning in their lives. And that life itself has no value for them. Which is clearly nonsensical. Do I have a less meaningful life than you? Is my existence less valuable to me? Are my children less imporrant to me than yours are to you? Obviously not. Yet this what is often claimed.

It's either a tired and cliched rhetorical flourish or more often a crie de coeur in that the person making these claims is trying to justify their own position. 'My beliefs must give me an advantage over you. My life has meaning...therefore yours cannot have any'.

There's a positive side to the negative concept of atheism (I don't believe in God/gods). And that is that I DO believe that we have not been especially created. I DO believe that we have no ultimate purpose. In that sense we are an accident of existence. We happen to be the top of the current food chain. We have reached a point where we can control the evolutionary process that got us here in the first place. So it's likely we'll go on in some way. But then again, a couple of bad winters or a new virus back in the distant past and we wouldn't be here at all. We got lucky.

So you treat life as if it has all been planned. It's all been orchestrated for us. It's like living in The Truman Show. You look up at the night sky and think it's great that God actually created it. We look up and think 'Wow - and all that happened naturally? And I'm lucky enough to be standing here soaking it all in?'

That seems to be so much more wonderful to me than thinking it's all designed.

Atheists have all taken the red pill at some point. Everyone else is being fed the blue ones.

[William]

[Replying to Bradskii in post #27]

If folk calling themselves atheists want to argue things outside of what atheism is, they are best to clarify what position they are arguing from if it is not strictly an atheist position.

I think there's a tendency by those of belief to misrepresent the concept of value and meaning held by those without belief. To the point of suggesting that atheists cannot have real meaning in their lives.

I myself did not suggest that atheist's cannot have real meaning in their lives.

[William]

I am unsure what your concern is.

I've made it exceedingly clear. You made this flawed claim:

According to atheism, we are 'nothing' in the same way as how I think this expression is being used.

Atheism does not teach that we are "nothing." Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.


Tcg

So therefore atheism teaches we are nothing that any gods would be interested in.

[Tcg]

I am unsure what your concern is.

I've made it exceedingly clear. You made this flawed claim:

According to atheism, we are 'nothing' in the same way as how I think this expression is being used.

Atheism does not teach that we are "nothing." Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.


Tcg

So therefore atheism teaches we are nothing that any gods would be interested in.

I have no idea where this conclusion came from or is based on. Nothing I've presented would lead to this conclusion, in fact the opposite. As I have clearly stated previously, atheism has no teachings which of course includes the one you've invented here. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.

The OP addresses this saying:



Apparently the concept is so popular that folks are making money by selling apparel with this slogan. The question from the OP remains, "Is this a reasonable Christian claim?" Strawmanning atheism does nothing to answer it.


Tcg