A more preposterous hypothesis

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Willum
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A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by Willum »

Many of you have probably heard of Eric, the god-eating penguin.
"God can't exist because of Eric The God-Eating Penguin. Since Eric is God-Eating by definition, he has no choice but to eat God. So, if God exists, He automatically ceases to exist as a result of being eaten. Unless you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, God doesn't exist. Even if you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, that same proof will also be applicable to God. There are only two possibilities - either you can prove that Eric doesn't exist or you can't - in both cases it logically follows that God doesn't exist."
-- Mark
Eric is not the point of this post.
The point that:
I propose that there is nothing you can posit about god, or God, that a more preposterous claim can be made that still is more logical than God.

We can use Eric as a starting point, God is posited, Eric is posited, preposterously as demonstrating God cannot exist, yet still logically defeats the idea in both cases.

I believe this is true about anything that can be said about God.

Am I wrong? Can anyone think of anything?

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 10:54 pm ...Which is really weird! since it was your premise.
Why are you asking me about your own claim?
I didn’t say that God designed people to do so. God has given freedom and ability to choose and then people have used the abilities freely, not so that God would have designed for what people would use them.

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by Willum »

1. We can all read what you wrote.
2. That anyone would choose evil, is not only evil itself, but something they shouldn't've been able to do, but
3. Giving the people the ability to choose evil is evil as well. In what scenario would anyone knowingly choose evil?
4. Again, this is a more preposterous hypothesis trumping the idea of God, a good God or indeed any Abrahamic god.

Well done, again, thank you!
Last edited by Willum on Sun May 31, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

Post #33

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I try to identify "what is the equivalent of God" in each person's understanding of life, the world and
the laws of nature or life.
So you purport that God is equivalent to every persons perspective about what they believe about it?
That everyone believes in the correct god?
That is certainly a preposterous hypothesis that nullifies the idea of a higher power, if it is just whatever you want it to be.
Child molesters would have a god that aligns with their depravity, allowing them to be saints and saviours.
Proving/disproving God in essence remains faith based.
Well, when you consider faith comes from ignorance, like a child who has faith in Santa, you are right again!
Having faith in the most profound thing in the universe without any rhyme or reason to is preposterous.
Imagine claiming the a god is more magnificent than the star that is our Sun, shining so brightly in the sky, but not having the least glimmer of the star faintest to the eye.
Well said.
Now, as for the negation of God, that also depends on each person's system.
One person I met did NOT believe that the forces or evolution of life sought SURVIVAL
but believed the drive in humanity sought DEATH and destruction.
No help there, this sounds too preposterous to be true.
if we can assume God is positive, like universal truth, life, wisdom, good will, love,
that we can assume something that destroys or voids that also exists.
I appreciate the word "if," it justifies your entire premise... because there are very few deities we can grant those positive/good assumptions to, and to do so for many is a preposterous assumption.
So things are NOT equal, it isn't arbitrary, if you can have +A then you can have -A.
Excellent, if god is balance, then its existence is preposterously unnecessary. Well done.

I think the latter about covers the rest of your post. A deity interested in good would build in mechanisms curtailing unfortunate and habitual abuse - perhaps a simple ability to program the behaviour, without that, a deity is a poor idea.

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 7:48 am ...
2. That anyone would choose evil, is not only evil itself, but something they shouldn't've been able to do, but
3. Giving the people the ability to choose evil is evil as well. In what scenario would anyone knowingly choose evil?...
I think it is not evil to give freedom. I think it is one thing that makes God great that He gave us freedom, unlike many evil and fascistic human leaders would do.

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by Willum »

1213 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:40 pm
Willum wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 7:48 am ...
2. That anyone would choose evil, is not only evil itself, but something they shouldn't've been able to do, but
3. Giving the people the ability to choose evil is evil as well. In what scenario would anyone knowingly choose evil?...
I think it is not evil to give freedom. I think it is one thing that makes God great that He gave us freedom, unlike many evil and fascistic human leaders would do.
So, you would give your children the freedom to play in the street?
If freedom to do evil is the only freedom, then what is the point?
If you are free to do God's will, THAT should('ve) been what he allowed.
If you are free to do evil, then you are already evil.

Yes, another excellent point you've made - the whole "choosing evil" thing from Genesis is preposterous - right out of a fairy tale.

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by bjs1 »

Willum wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 9:44 pm The point that:
I propose that there is nothing you can posit about god, or God, that a more preposterous claim can be made that still is more logical than God.

We can use Eric as a starting point, God is posited, Eric is posited, preposterously as demonstrating God cannot exist, yet still logically defeats the idea in both cases.
Part of the challenge here could be the definition of the words.

Logical means “according to the rules of logic or formal argument.” Neither God nor Eric violate any rules of logic, so both are equally logical. Similarly, both belief that New York City exists and that Mordor exists are equally logical, even though one is accurate and the other is not.

Perhaps you meant that you find Eric more reasonable than God. Reasonable, in this context, means “based on good sense.” Two ideas can be equally logical but not equally reasonable. However, the fact that you say Eric is “a more preposterous claim” than God means that have already admitted that God is more reasonable than Eric. So your proposition seems inherently self-contradictory.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

Post #37

Post by Willum »

YAWN. Perhaps some people have trouble with definitions, but I assume people have graduated from high school and can use words both literally, or flexibly enough to convey meaning.
Certainly a few others who answered the post were capable of doing so without pause.

So.
My favorite illogical rationale trumping the God thing answers the question:
"Why was there evil after the flood?"
I mean obviously God had selected his "good" Noah over the horrors he had allow to propagate to near utter majority, so clearly there was an opportunity to start over on par with the Garden of Eden.

So why didn't God do just that, use the Flood to fix the world, as it were?
Here is the far more logical, yet far more preposterous solution to this little pickle:

God had prepared to replenish the Earth with good people, but Satan, once again thwarted him.
God's champion spent 500 years building the boat, all the while Satan conspired and planned. Just like he planned to seduce Eve in the Garden, or the Angels from Heaven. When the time was right, Satan's champion, a wicked man with a wicked family, killed God's champion, and took their place on the Ark.

This is why we are still evil today, it also explains any and all incongruities in the Bible, as Satan's champion, aka, Noah, rewrote the Bible for his convenience, and not God's.

Slick, huh?

Is there anything this hypothesis does not explain better than the Bible does?

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by bjs1 »

Willum wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:25 am YAWN. Perhaps some people have trouble with definitions, but I assume people have graduated from high school and can use words both literally, or flexibly enough to convey meaning.
Certainly a few others who answered the post were capable of doing so without pause.

So.
My favorite illogical rationale trumping the God thing answers the question:
"Why was there evil after the flood?"
I mean obviously God had selected his "good" Noah over the horrors he had allow to propagate to near utter majority, so clearly there was an opportunity to start over on par with the Garden of Eden.

So why didn't God do just that, use the Flood to fix the world, as it were?
Here is the far more logical, yet far more preposterous solution to this little pickle:

God had prepared to replenish the Earth with good people, but Satan, once again thwarted him.
God's champion spent 500 years building the boat, all the while Satan conspired and planned. Just like he planned to seduce Eve in the Garden, or the Angels from Heaven. When the time was right, Satan's champion, a wicked man with a wicked family, killed God's champion, and took their place on the Ark.

This is why we are still evil today, it also explains any and all incongruities in the Bible, as Satan's champion, aka, Noah, rewrote the Bible for his convenience, and not God's.

Slick, huh?

Is there anything this hypothesis does not explain better than the Bible does?
Very well. We will use “logical” in a flexible way.

You wrote that Eric is “a more preposterous claim” than God, which means that have already established that belief in God is more logical than belief in Eric. So your proposition is inherently self-contradictory.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

Post #39

Post by Willum »

Not in a reading mood, huh?
Yes, even though Eric is NOT the subject of the post, AND Eric is more preposterous, Eric is still more logical than God.
So though more preposterous, Eric makes more sense.
Very well we shall acknowledge the rest of the claim, that Eric is already established as a God-eating penguin. So using your logic, God must have eaten God, making God's existence a self-contradictory claim.

Which, if you had applied the Eric concept in the beginning, you would already have noticed. You have tried to use wordplay to summon a less preposterous, yet still preposterous god into existence. It doesn't work. God is preposterous, the gedankin concept of Eric is also preposterous. That Eric is more preposterous in magnitude, does not make a preposterous deity exist. In fact it should point out the opposite. Alexander the Great having an affair with Madame de Pompadour is less preposterous than either, but it doesn't mean it can happen.

Eric is just a concept that demonstrates god does not exist intuitively.

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Re: A more preposterous hypothesis

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Post by bjs1 »

Willum wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:00 am Not in a reading mood, huh?
Yes, even though Eric is NOT the subject of the post, AND Eric is more preposterous, Eric is still more logical than God.
So though more preposterous, Eric makes more sense.
Contradiction: noun, a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.

Unless you being so flexible as to use the word "logical" as it's own antonym, saying that Eric is more preposterous than God and more logical than God is contradiction.
Willum wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:00 am Very well we shall acknowledge the rest of the claim, that Eric is already established as a God-eating penguin. So using your logic, God must have eaten God, making God's existence a self-contradictory claim.
I am honestly not how you got here. It seems like a non-sequitur.
Willum wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:00 am Which, if you had applied the Eric concept in the beginning, you would already have noticed. You have tried to use wordplay to summon a less preposterous, yet still preposterous god into existence. It doesn't work. God is preposterous, the gedankin concept of Eric is also preposterous. That Eric is more preposterous in magnitude, does not make a preposterous deity exist. In fact it should point out the opposite. Alexander the Great having an affair with Madame de Pompadour is less preposterous than either, but it doesn't mean it can happen.

Eric is just a concept that demonstrates god does not exist intuitively.
I have used no wordplay. I have not argued that God exists because Eric does not. I have not said that being less preposterous makes something true.

The only claim I have maid in this thread is that your central argument is a self-contradictory.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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