A more preposterous hypothesis

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Willum
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A more preposterous hypothesis

Post #1

Post by Willum »

Many of you have probably heard of Eric, the god-eating penguin.
"God can't exist because of Eric The God-Eating Penguin. Since Eric is God-Eating by definition, he has no choice but to eat God. So, if God exists, He automatically ceases to exist as a result of being eaten. Unless you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, God doesn't exist. Even if you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, that same proof will also be applicable to God. There are only two possibilities - either you can prove that Eric doesn't exist or you can't - in both cases it logically follows that God doesn't exist."
-- Mark
Eric is not the point of this post.
The point that:
I propose that there is nothing you can posit about god, or God, that a more preposterous claim can be made that still is more logical than God.

We can use Eric as a starting point, God is posited, Eric is posited, preposterously as demonstrating God cannot exist, yet still logically defeats the idea in both cases.

I believe this is true about anything that can be said about God.

Am I wrong? Can anyone think of anything?

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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #91

Post by Willum »

1213 wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:52 am
Willum wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:17 am ...So you agree with the more preposterous, in this case horrid hypothesis that it is the omniscient's will that we all learn what evil is, … ...In any case, you agree with the idea that this world is the greatest possible good, and our perception of evil is just our whining?
I believe the world God created in the beginning was good. There was no evil. It was not necessary to learn to know evil this way, but I think it is good that God gave this opportunity. But this choice was people’s choice, not God’s, God only gave the opportunity. And because God did not create us originally to this “Matrix”, I do not think His will was that we must experience this.
I believe the world God created in the beginning was as evil as he is. The same as it is now. People were given no choice, because they didn’t have the knowledge of good and evil to choose.

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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #92

Post by brunumb »

1213 wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:52 am I believe the world God created in the beginning was good. There was no evil. It was not necessary to learn to know evil this way, but I think it is good that God gave this opportunity. But this choice was people’s choice, not God’s, God only gave the opportunity.
If there was no evil, how would people know what it was and want to learn about it? If they knew about evil, what was there to learn? You are not making any sense of this.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #93

Post by DavidLeon »

Willum wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:15 pmI believe the world God created in the beginning was as evil as he is. The same as it is now. People were given no choice, because they didn’t have the knowledge of good and evil to choose.
Are you suggesting that God knew any more about evil than Adam and Eve? What knowledge did God have regarding evil that the people he created didn't have? No one, God or man, had experienced any evil.
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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #94

Post by Willum »

DavidLeon wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:56 pm
Willum wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:15 pmI believe the world God created in the beginning was as evil as he is. The same as it is now. People were given no choice, because they didn’t have the knowledge of good and evil to choose.
Are you suggesting that God knew any more about evil than Adam and Eve? What knowledge did God have regarding evil that the people he created didn't have? No one, God or man, had experienced any evil.
To answer your questions, I want you to travel back with me to a time before time, before God created the universe.
God is still omniscient, yes?
He still knows everything that will come, yes?
So he knows the evil that will happen after creation, yes?
Therefore the only source of evil, the only place evil exists, is God.

Thank you for introducing yet another preposterous hypothesis.

Views of others?

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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #95

Post by DavidLeon »

Willum wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:59 amTo answer your questions, I want you to travel back with me to a time before time, before God created the universe.
YAY! Road trip! [claps hands excitedly]
Willum wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:59 amGod is still omniscient, yes?
Uh ... no. Religious nonsense.
Willum wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:59 amHe still knows everything that will come, yes?
No. He knows his purpose will be without fail, but he doesn't see the future like a fortune teller.
Willum wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:59 amSo he knows the evil that will happen after creation, yes?
Nope. He knows that if his creation, i.e. angels and humans, think that they can decide for themselves what is good and what is evil the results would be disasterous, but other than that he has no idea what specifically would happen after creation.
Willum wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:59 amTherefore the only source of evil, the only place evil exists, is God.
Evil is a subjective term. So if God creates the universe and thinks it good but Satan thinks it evil then evil exists in Satan, not God. Since God created the thing which Satan perceives as evil I suppose it could be said to be, arguably, the source of the evil. Some old Bibles translate the Hebrew ra into evil but a more accurate translation would be calamity. Isaiah 45:7 is talking about God creating evil, or calamity, as a necessary result of man's disobedience. Like a child being grounded is evil to the child, the expulsion from the garden of Eden, the global deluge and death are calamitous.
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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #96

Post by Willum »

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #95]

Dave, this site is called "Debating Christianity," NOT debating DaveLeonism.
The Bible claims of all knowing and all powerful are a default and you can not just ignore these without reason. The assumptions a default of Cannon and associated anecdote.
Evil is a subjective term. So if God creates the universe and thinks it good but Satan thinks it evil then evil exists in Satan, not God.
Nice, and I agree, but not within scope of the topic.

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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #97

Post by DavidLeon »

Willum wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:01 amDave, this site is called "Debating Christianity," NOT debating DaveLeonism.
Nor is it Zzyzxism or Willumism. Are you suggesting that I'm not capable of "Debating Christianity?"
Willum wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:01 amThe Bible claims of all knowing and all powerful are a default and you can not just ignore these without reason.
I certainly could, but instead I'm challenging them. You made the claim and I challenge it. First we define. All knowing, all powerful and omniscient. Go.
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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #98

Post by 1213 »

brunumb wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:46 pm ...If there was no evil, how would people know what it was and want to learn about it? If they knew about evil, what was there to learn? You are not making any sense of this.
Bible tells this:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat of it you will surely die."
Gen. 2:17

for God knows that in the day you eat it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Gen. 3:5

That is how they knew the word evil, and why they wanted to know like God what it means. Other option would have been to ask directly from God, which would have been nicer way to know.

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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #99

Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:15 pm I believe the world God created in the beginning was as evil as he is. The same as it is now. People were given no choice, because they didn’t have the knowledge of good and evil to choose.
Ok, however, that is not what the Bible tells.

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Re: If God is omnipotent, why is there evil?

Post #100

Post by Willum »

[Replying to 1213 in post #99]

That is not what God is said to say, it is exactly what the Bible tells.

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