Why so low retention and low education?

[Zzyzx]

.
Why so low retention and low education?

Jehovah’s Witnesses have a low retention rate relative to other U.S. religious groups. Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group.
By contrast, 35% of Evangelical Protestants and Mormons leave their respective groups.

Compared with other U.S. religious groups, Jehovah’s Witnesses tend to be less educated. A solid majority of adult Jehovah’s Witnesses (63%) have no more than a high school diploma, compared with, for example, 43% of evangelical Protestants and 37% of mainline Protestants.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

Two-thirds LEAVE.

Two-thirds have not gone beyond high school.

What accounts for such a high attrition rate compared to Evangelical Protestants and Mormons?

What accounts for low education rate compared to Evangelical Protestants and Mainline Protestants.?

[Purple Knight]

Why so low retention

They're super strict. It's really that simple. I would say they're second only to the Amish (and Amish-like beliefs, there are actually a couple like the Mennonites) in the restrictions the Jehovah's Witnesses put on behaviour.

You could as easily frame this as a dig at human beings in general. See how people don't like to follow any rules because muh freedom?

I think the answer is in the middle. JWs not letting people watch Thor because it portrays a heathen god is a little off-the-wall, but conversely the rest of the modern world is too permissible. It's not going to kill you to watch Thor or even Deadpool. But some of the things JWs forbid actually do kill people. Their strict rules do have a function.

Got a bit of equivocation going on here. The "education" that Jehovah's Witnesses get due to "the high emphasis their religion places on voluntary community work, literacy and public speaking, foreign languages, international travel and missionary work, construction skills, disaster relief and cultural diversity," is nothing at all like the formal education one gets by going to college. May as well say that spending ten years in prison is an "education," or sweeping floors and making beds in a hospital is an "education."

That's more than a little harsh.

People do got their diplomas in prison by the way. They go to prison, and because of what they're taught in prison, they get an education. The idea that people can't get an education in prison or even in a cult* is based on a valuation of where the knowledge comes from rather than the knowledge itself. You don't think people go to college to learn construction or foreign languages?

*Some people think JWs are a cult. I don't think I do. Depends on how easy it is to leave. But some people do think so, and even if it is so, you can get an education anywhere.

It depends on what you learn, not who's teaching you. People have forgotten that.

[Difflugia]

Got a bit of equivocation going on here. The "education" that Jehovah's Witnesses get due to "the high emphasis their religion places on voluntary community work, literacy and public speaking, foreign languages, international travel and missionary work, construction skills, disaster relief and cultural diversity," is nothing at all like the formal education one gets by going to college. May as well say that spending ten years in prison is an "education," or sweeping floors and making beds in a hospital is an "education."

That's more than a little harsh.

Harsh, perhaps, but not unfair.

Remember that the second question posed by the OP was why relatively few Jehovah's Witnesses have any formal education beyond high school and the rebuttal attempt used "educated" in a completely different sense and context ("Jehovah's Witnesses are an educated people"). That is exactly the kind of equivocation described herre.

The idea that people can't get an education in prison or even in a cult* is based on a valuation of where the knowledge comes from rather than the knowledge itself.

That's not the argument anyone is making. The question is why relatively fewer Jehovah's Witnesses continue formal education after high school, not if they could or not. Unless someone wants to support (rather than merely assert) a claim that community service and proselytization training offer the educational equivalent of any post high school degree, such a claim is no more than a red herring.

[Purple Knight]

Remember that the second question posed by the OP was why relatively few Jehovah's Witnesses have any formal education beyond high school and the rebuttal attempt used "educated" in a completely different sense and context ("Jehovah's Witnesses are an educated people"). That is exactly the kind of equivocation described here.

If the question is specifically about formal education I question the usefulness of that distinction. Perhaps they don't need it since they're educated elsewhere and that's the answer to the question. Construction is nothing to sneeze at. Religious people are getting a better education in construction than is taught in college.

[Tcg]

Religious people are getting a better education in construction than is taught in college.

That's an astonishingly broad claim and one that certainly isn't supported by a single video about the Amish.

Additionally, the OP addresses the Jehovah's Witnesses specifically, not the Amish and not the religious in general.

The third strike is that there are certainly more subjects to consider than just construction.


Tcg

[benchwarmer]

Construction is nothing to sneeze at. Religious people are getting a better education in construction than is taught in college.

I highly doubt that claim. Construction is taught in post secondary technical schools i.e. colleges. If it's a good school, you will learn all sorts of modern construction techniques, building code requirements, etc. Some religious people may learn similar skills via their religious organizations, but those are not subject to accreditation. In other words, there is no technical oversight to ensure whatever a religious organization teaches you about construction is up to the latest techniques and safety guidelines.

Who would you trust to build you a home in a hurricane zone? Someone that shuns modern education in construction techniques or someone who may or may not have a clue about how to stop your roof from blowing off?

[Purple Knight]

That's an astonishingly broad claim and one that certainly isn't supported by a single video about the Amish.

Additionally, the OP addresses the Jehovah's Witnesses specifically, not the Amish and not the religious in general.

If you can find evidence that the religious are getting a substandard education as compared to colleges, present it. Otherwise, small evidence is better than zero evidence, and at least proves good education - better than many colleges since the people wanting the beach houses select the Amish for better quality - sometimes happens in religious communities.

The third strike is that there are certainly more subjects to consider than just construction.

I would rather compare apples to apples. Some colleges don't teach everything either, and that's fine. It doesn't speak to the quality of education that people are specialised. People go to college to become specialised. People who go to college to become "well rounded" end up out of work, in a menial job, or obese if they take it literally.

In other words, there is no technical oversight to ensure whatever a religious organization teaches you about construction is up to the latest techniques and safety guidelines.

First of all, we don't know that. Neither of us knows what sort of measures are in place within religious organisations that teach construction to ensure that correct methods are taught, but we can get an idea that they do function if the result is sound construction. The idea that just because of the word accreditation, a college's method must function better, or has a 100% chance of producing graduates that know what they're doing, is dubious. The end results are easier to see and compare, and yes, I would trust the Amish to build my house or install a feature. I worry more that someone is intentionally scamming me than that they don't know what they're doing.