If Jesus isn't God?

[Tcg]

Some who follow Jesus claim that he was / is a man and not God. Some within that group also claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus even in some cases to the extent of having conversations with him. It seems this would put him in a category other humans don't qualify for. For instance, I have a grandfather who died 40 years ago and yet I am no longer able to have a relationship with him. We are unable to have conversations.

Clearly Jesus would have to be more than human for these claims to be true. If they are true, and if Jesus isn't God, just what is he?


Tcg

[DavidLeon]

And in response I have already clearly expressed that he's dead. If, even in his life, in the past tense, he didn't communicate with his followers in the capacity you are suggesting why would he do so now?

As you will see when you review this thread, I haven't suggested he'd communicate with his followers in the capacity some (not me) suggest he does now (present tense.)

I don't need to review the thread. I understand that you haven't suggested he'd communicate at all or not. The question was intended to establish what Jesus would be if the claims of communication by his present day human followers were true. The answer is demonic or fraud. Fraud in the sense that the followers only think they are true, so, in a sense the answer would just be demonic. Which is fraud because it wouldn't actually be Jesus. In other words in order for the claims to be true Jesus would have to not be Jesus. It's a conundrum.

[bjs1]

[Replying to Tcg in post #5]

Ok, then the simple answer is: They don’t. They do not teach that Jesus was not God. With the exception of JWs, itself a fringe movement, all Christian groups teach that Jesus is God. It is a core doctrine of Christianity.

We've already established the fact that not all Christians accept the teaching that Jesus is God. Your displeasure with this fact doesn't address the question at hand. I'll not repeat it again given that I've already done so.

“Established” seems generous. You have stated, without evidence, that not all Christians accept the teaching that Jesus is God. You have not named any group of Christians, other than my mention of JWs, who hold that teaching.

[Zzyzx]

Christian denominations with different opinon of Jesus

Mormonism - Latter-day Saints: Jesus is God's literal son, a separate being from God the Father and the "elder brother" of men.

Jehovah's Witness: Jesus is not God, nor part of the Godhead. He is higher than the angels but inferior to God.

Christian Science: Jesus, though not God, is the Son of God. He was the promised Messiah but was not a deity.

Armstrongism: Jesus did not have a physical resurrection

Christadelphians: Deny the divinity of Jesus, believing he is fully human and separate from God.

Unification Church: Jesus was not God, but a man. He did not experience a physical resurrection.

Unity School of Christianity: Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, but rather, he reincarnated.

Scientology – Dianetics: Jesus is not God, Savior, or Creator, nor does he have control of supernatural powers.

[historia]

Who specifically do you have in mind beyond JWs?

Aside from the Jehovah's Witnesses, two other groups who don't believe in the deity of Christ are the Christadelphians and the Church of God General Conference (McDonough, Georgia). These are tiny sects.

Unlike the Jehovah's Witnesses, who follow an Arian Christology, these two other groups follow a Socinian Christology. Otherwise, they emerged from the same 19th Century Adventist/Restorationist milieu, and so hold several beliefs in common.

However, to my knowledge, none of these groups promote praying to Jesus -- precisely because they don't believe in the deity of Christ -- and so would be unlikely to "claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus," per the OP -- although perhaps one of our resident Jehovah's Witnesses can correct me if I am wrong.

Such a claim, then, may just be the idiosyncratic view of particular individuals, and not tied to any doctrines of these groups.

[1213]

Some who follow Jesus claim that he was / is a man and not God. ...

Bible says Jesus is a man and that there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Also, according to the Bible, Jesus is the image of God.

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Colossians 1:14

[Tcg]

Some who follow Jesus claim that he was / is a man and not God. ...

Bible says Jesus is a man and that there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Also, according to the Bible, Jesus is the image of God.

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Colossians 1:14

Thank-you for representing the very group of Christians my question addresses. Oddly, some who have posted here want to pretend you don't exist.

Do you consider Jesus anything more than a human being?


Tcg

[1213]

...
Do you consider Jesus anything more than a human being?

I believe what Bible tells about Jesus. And Bible says Jesus is a man. However, he is not common man, because according to the Bible, he has existed even in the beginning and he is called a son of God and the Messiah. He has great abilities, but according to him, it is because of God and from God, not from himself, which is why it possible for him to be a human and still make the miracles. God has exalted Jesus.

I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don't seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
John 5:30

God exalted him with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.
Acts 5:31

For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:27-28

And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the cross. Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name;
Fil. 2:8-9

"My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

[historia]

Some who follow Jesus claim that he was / is a man and not God. ...

Bible says Jesus is a man and that there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus.

Would you say that you have a personal relationship with Jesus?

For example, do you pray to Jesus?

[1213]

...
Would you say that you have a personal relationship with Jesus?

For example, do you pray to Jesus?

I am not sure what it would mean to have personal relationship. I think I have, but, Jesus taught to pray God the father. I pray as Jesus taught.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Some who follow Jesus claim that he was / is a man and not God. Some within that group also claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus even in some cases to the extent of having conversations with him. It seems this would put him in a category other humans don't qualify for. For instance, I have a grandfather who died 40 years ago and yet I am no longer able to have a relationship with him. We are unable to have conversations.


Clearly Jesus would have to be more than human for these claims to be true. If they are true, and if Jesus isn't God, just what is he?


Tcg

I have never made the claim that Christ (Jaheshua) was 'just' a man (so your question might not apply to me)... and He is also not God (by God, I mean the Most Holy One of Israel, God Most High, "YHWH". Christ is the HOLY One, whereas His Father is the MOST Holy One.) I do, however, testify that Christ speaks and that His sheep - given to Him by His Father - listen to His voice.


So what is He?


He is the Son of God. He is the Life (and the Tree of Life in Genesis); Wisdom (Proverbs 8 - lots of information about Christ in there), the firstborn over all creation, the Truth, and the (living) Word of God. Clearly, all of this describes more than just a man, and since He is alive (as the Spirit), He is able to speak to us and to teach us.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy