Gifts from the 'Holy Spirit'?

[Zzyzx]

Gifts from the 'Holy Spirit'?

It is not uncommon in these threads for Christians to claim they receive (something) from a supernatural 'spirit' (supposedly a part of 'god').

The Church functions by the Holy Spirit in the individual lives of believers. Every believer has been given gifts from the Holy Spirit. It is through these gifts that the Church functions. See (1 Cor. 12-14) (Rom. 12:1-16) and (Eph. 4:4-16).

So, the believers, Christians, have the Spirit of God and the Word of God to determine and measure.

What 'gifts', exactly, have Christians received from the 'spirit'?


Christians seem to be about average in personal characteristics and abilities. If they have been 'helped' or 'benefited' in some way, what were / are they without the 'gifts' – a basket case?

If someone gets help to come up to average, they must have been well below average to start with.

It appears as though many Muslims are more committed to their religion, their rituals, their 'god' than Christians. Does this indicate that the 'holy spirit' gives Muslims more 'gifts' than Christians?

[koko]

I don't see how this justifies making an idol out of the book.

Either way, you present a scenario of being, able to work miracles, but when it comes to the most important message the god has to deliver, all of a sudden miracles are off the table.

You present a man that can conjure up breads and fishes and even return to life after being dead for days, but somehow the writing of the message for all of humanity (so it is claimed) cannot be done without a pen and paper.

Why not conjure up the message that the creator of the universe wanted delivererd to everyone? Conjuring when it feeds our bellies, but not when our soul is on the line?
Surely you can see how this explination doesn't add up?

Actually I discussed this on another thread dealing with the unfulfilled promises made in the Bible. Like you, I don't a want a book to become as idol, especially if it is just words. Actions speak infinitely louder which is why I called for miracles on that thread.

In fact, why would anyone want to read a book about someone who drops a net into waters and miraculously draws fish (by the way, I'm the world's worst fisherman ~ you can almost hear the fish laughing when I've approached the waters) and tells you you can do the same if you do it in his name but it turns out to be a fairy tale? Healing the sick, feeding masses of people with one basket, calming sea storms, turning water into wine (in my case I'd turn it into olive oil since I'm a teetotaler) ~ all these things I'd love to do. This especially since I'm in need to healing miracles myself.

So yes, I agree with you that all this (that is, all these promises made in the Bible) does NOT add up because they are not being fulfilled with ACTION. We are supposed to be having each and every one of these miracles happening today since "Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever" ~ Hebrews 13:8.

I openly call for tis same Jesus to stand up now and manifestly appear and to fulfill, not merely to repeat, the same old tired sermons every day, week, and month. Do not repeat promises. Instead, take healing corrective actions. That's the Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Healer or biblical whomever that I want in my dismal life - not a promiser, but a doer.

[Difflugia]

The Bible is the living word of god embodied through Jesus - John 1:1-14.

What does 'living word of a god' mean?

I'm also interested in your answer to this question. John 1 doesn't have anything to do with the Bible. John 1 says that Jesus was the living Word of God embodied through Jesus. The Bible is at best a human record of words of God, or words inspired by God, or words about God, or something. Jesus was (according to John's prologue) the divine Word, the actual substance and essence of God's creative force, made flesh.

The Bible isn't Jesus.

[koko]

The Bible is the living word of god embodied through Jesus - John 1:1-14.

What does 'living word of a god' mean?

I'm also interested in your answer to this question. John 1 doesn't have anything to do with the Bible. John 1 says that Jesus was the living Word of God embodied through Jesus. The Bible is at best a human record of words of God, or words inspired by God, or words about God, or something. Jesus was (according to John's prologue) the divine Word, the actual substance and essence of God's creative force, made flesh.

The Bible isn't Jesus.

I thought I had answered that. According to the Bible, Jesus is the living word John 1:14 ~

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV


There are numerous comments on this verse: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn ... mms_998014

Bottom line that since Jesus is supposedly the word (the Bible), every time you lay your hands on the Bible, and you read each and every word, this is (in theory) Jesus Christ talking to you.

Great. Hoooray, in fact. So Jesus is "talking" to me and to you. Now how about some actions consistent with those promises? As a literary scholar, I sure as hell don't need any biblical lessons or promises. Mere words don't do a thing for me. I'm looking for actions, not for promises. Let's get all those promises fulfilled. After all, Jesus has had only 2,000 years in which to get them done. So what the hell is he waiting for?

[brunumb]

You present a man that can conjure up breads and fishes and even return to life after being dead for days, but somehow the writing of the message for all of humanity (so it is claimed) cannot be done without a pen and paper.

And if God can create and fine tune an entire universe for life, he could surely do the same for his important message to humanity.

[otseng]

As a literary scholar, I sure as hell don't need any biblical lessons or promises.

So what the hell is he waiting for?

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[Clownboat]

Bottom line that since Jesus is supposedly the word (the Bible), every time you lay your hands on the Bible, and you read each and every word, this is (in theory) Jesus Christ talking to you.

This is not directed at you, but this is the type of thing I'm talking about when I talk about making an idol out of the Bible. In a way, if Jesus is god and Jesus and the Bible are the word of god, then the Bible is being elevated to being god. Might as well paint it gold and shape it into a bull.

The danger of making an idol of the Bible and in the end a persons own interpretation of it which they will cling to as if it is themselves, is that their narrow view is in opposition to the principles that Jesus taught like love and acceptance. Such people will fight among themselves because what they are really doing is self promotion, each of them seeking to claim to speak for god.

[RJG]

I think people have excellent imaginations when it comes to the question of the hs, there is nothing to suggest it actually exists.

[bluegreenearth]

I think people have excellent imaginations when it comes to the question of the hs, there is nothing to suggest it actually exists.

Yes, the central problem for all imagined theistic claims is that they cannot be demonstrated to exist outside the imagination and in our external reality. In all the years that I've been communicating with theists, they have never been able to accomplish this primary objective. This is precisely why theism places so much emphasis on the necessity of religious faith in its epistemology. In other words, if theistic claims referred to things and events that have already been demonstrated to exist and occur in other contexts, then there would be no need for people to rely upon their faith to belief those claims because they would have sufficient evidence.

[koko]

I, too, am waiting for a demonstration of that HS as well. It's what I've been asking for for a long time.

[koko]

Just one last thought on the matter of divine miracles ~ the idea that miracles are restricted to the New Testament's apostolic era is without basis because miracles also took place in Old Testament times as per 1 Kings 17:17–24 & 2 Kings 1:10 =


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=KJV


Note how neither Jesus, his disciples, nor is the Holy Spirit mentioned. Of course, we know of the miracle of the parting of the waters and many other miraculous things in the Old Testament. Therefore, the claim that healings and miracles are restricted to the apostolic era is totally without basis. Further, as Jesus himself said, "greater" miracles than what he did is what we are supposed to be witnessing on tv, in churches, and everywhere else today. All that is supposed to be the norm, the natural order of things. So let's see these professing Christian churches perform these things.