Gifts from the 'Holy Spirit'?

[Zzyzx]

Gifts from the 'Holy Spirit'?

It is not uncommon in these threads for Christians to claim they receive (something) from a supernatural 'spirit' (supposedly a part of 'god').

The Church functions by the Holy Spirit in the individual lives of believers. Every believer has been given gifts from the Holy Spirit. It is through these gifts that the Church functions. See (1 Cor. 12-14) (Rom. 12:1-16) and (Eph. 4:4-16).

So, the believers, Christians, have the Spirit of God and the Word of God to determine and measure.

What 'gifts', exactly, have Christians received from the 'spirit'?


Christians seem to be about average in personal characteristics and abilities. If they have been 'helped' or 'benefited' in some way, what were / are they without the 'gifts' – a basket case?

If someone gets help to come up to average, they must have been well below average to start with.

It appears as though many Muslims are more committed to their religion, their rituals, their 'god' than Christians. Does this indicate that the 'holy spirit' gives Muslims more 'gifts' than Christians?

[Quantrill]

Sorry. My mistake. But my question is still to you. Why are you concerned about who the Holy Spirit imparts knowledge to if you are not Christian?

I'm concerned about finding logical answers to critical thinking questions. Do you not share that concern?

Logic to the world and logic to the Christian are not the same. So what do you look for now?

Quantrill

[bluegreenearth]

Logic to the world and logic to the Christian are not the same. So what do you look for now?

Now, I'm going to wait for responses from intellectually honest interlocutors.

[Quantrill]

Logic to the world and logic to the Christian are not the same. So what do you look for now?

Now, I'm going to wait for responses from intellectually honest interlocutors.

Oh. You're going to wait for responses from those who agree with you. I see. You're going to wait for responses from those who don't know anything about any Holy Spirit. I see. In other words, you're going to wait fro responses from those that don't know anything about any Holy Spirit, just like you don't know anything about any Holy Spirit.

Typical

Quantrill
'

[bluegreenearth]

Oh. You're going to wait for responses from those who agree with you. I see. You're going to wait for responses from those who don't know anything about any Holy Spirit. I see. In other words, you're going to wait fro responses from those that don't know anything about any Holy Spirit, just like you don't know anything about any Holy Spirit.

Typical

Are you claiming to be an intellectually honest interlocutor? Your responses thus far have not demonstrated any sort of agreement or disagreement with anything I asked in my initial post,. In fact, you haven't even attempted to offer a relevant response at all yet. I'm fully prepared to consider any disagreement you might have, but you need to explain what that disagreement is first. So, by all means, you are welcome to answer the critical thinking questions that were asked instead of bloviating all over the place. Otherwise, I'm sure there are other Christians on this forum who would be willing to embrace the challenge of thinking critically about their belief.

[Quantrill]

Are you claiming to be an intellectually honest interlocutor? Your responses thus far have not demonstrated any sort of agreement or disagreement with anything I asked in my initial post,. In fact, you haven't even attempted to offer a relevant response at all yet. I'm fully prepared to consider any disagreement you might have, but you need to explain what that disagreement is first. So, by all means, you are welcome to answer the critical thinking questions that were asked instead of bloviating all over the place. Otherwise, I'm sure there are other Christians on this forum who would be willing to embrace the challenge of thinking critically about their belief.

Are you claiming to know something about the Holy Spirit? Or are you admitting you know nothing about the Holy Spirit?

If you know something that Christians don't know about the Holy Spirit, then by all means enlighten us. And of course show where you get this information from. And if you don't know anything about the Holy Spirit, then how can you judge any answer concerning Him.

See? You seek information that agrees with your non-belief. You are not seeing any information on the Holy Spirit.

Quantrill

[bluegreenearth]

Are you claiming to know something about the Holy Spirit? Or are you admitting you know nothing about the Holy Spirit?

If you know something that Christians don't know about the Holy Spirit, then by all means enlighten us. And of course show where you get this information from. And if you don't know anything about the Holy Spirit, then how can you judge any answer concerning Him.

See? You seek information that agrees with your non-belief. You are not seeing any information on the Holy Spirit.

I only know what I remember from when I once believed the Holy Spirit had entered into me, from what is contained in the Bible, and from what people like you claim about the Holy Spirit. So, rather than evaluating the claim from a secular perspective, I try to look at it through the Christian worldview. When considering the idea from the Christian perspective, it leaves me wondering how I could possibly distinguish between an actual experience of the Holy Spirit and my ability to mistakenly believe that an experience was caused by the Holy Spirit. Since a claimed personal experience of the Holy Spirit cannot be objectively measured or demonstrated to anyone else in such a way that it can be distinguished from a placebo effect, I am compelled by intellectual honesty to wonder how anyone rules-out the possibility of the phenomenon being a case of mistaken attribution. It also compels me to ask those other question from my initial post which still remain unanswered.

[DavidLeon]

[Replying to Zzyzx in post #1]

I think it is an interesting and remarkable coincidence that only the Christians from one particular denomination of Christianity consistently manage to have their interpretation of the scriptures confirmed by the Holy Spirit while the remaining heretical Christians from the other denominations consistently manage to mistakenly believe the Holy Spirit has confirmed their equally plausible but ultimately incorrect interpretations. I wonder why you never hear about the Holy Spirit confirming a portion of one Christian denomination's Biblical interpretation and confirming a different portion of another Christian denomination's Biblical interpretation given the improbability of any one Christian denomination never making a mistake in at least some portion of their interpretation? I wonder how an objective and unbiased outsider could distinguish between the Christians who actually had the Holy Spirit guide them to a correct interpretation of the scriptures and the Christians who mistakenly believe the Holy Spirit has guided them to a correct interpretation? It would certainly help if the Holy Spirit could impart that knowledge to everyone and not just the Christians from one particular denomination of Christianity.

Well, how did it work in the Bible? Here was this nation of chosen people with Jehovah's guidance and the political, religious and social landscape was a mess. So the holy spirit operated at Jehovah's will to select persons to rectify this and more often than not it was a lost cause, eventually collapsing. Because the majority of people, especially in leadership positions didn't want the alternative. So then what? The holy spirit switched gears, so to speak, and began demonstrating that Jesus and his apostles were now operating with the holy spirit. Then the same thing happened with the Christians as had happened with the Jews.

Don't you think that the obvious conclusion regarding the question of which Christian denomination's Biblical interpretation is confirmed by the holy spirit is most likely none? Why is that? Simply because people don't want it.

[bluegreenearth]

Don't you think that the obvious conclusion regarding the question of which Christian denomination's Biblical interpretation is confirmed by the holy spirit is most likely none? Why is that? Simply because people don't want it.

...or an experience of the Holy Spirit is just another example of the placebo effect unless you have a way to rule-out that possibility?

[DavidLeon]

Don't you think that the obvious conclusion regarding the question of which Christian denomination's Biblical interpretation is confirmed by the holy spirit is most likely none? Why is that? Simply because people don't want it.

...or an experience of the Holy Spirit is just another example of the placebo effect unless you have a way to rule-out that possibility?

The alleged experience, and of course it is. The benefit being, in the case of the placebo effect, that the holy spirit was never a part of the equation. In other words the way to rule out the possibility is to not want the placebo effect. To sincerely desire the holy spirit.

[Tcg]

In other words the way to rule out the possibility is to not want the placebo effect. To sincerely desire the holy spirit.

It may be that the only way the placebo effect works is to "sincerely desire the holy spirit." Those who do so are already primed to believe that whatever effect they experience is the result of the claimed, but not evidenced, Holy Spirit.


Tcg