bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:00 pm
DavidLeon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:51 pm
bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:28 pm
Correct, and I must presume that this outcome applies to everyone else as well.
Not exactly, no.
To suggest otherwise is special pleading.
It doesn't matter to me what you call it, how do you react to it? How does it effect the outcome?
You said that you must presume that this outcome applies to everyone else as well. Why is that? How is it that you can presume anything at all, much less must presume? If you have to presume anything it must be useless since you can't know if the presumption is true or false. Presumption would be useless? Is that a claim that you are making - that it applies to everyone else?
If I claim that a person can hold their breath underwater for 22 minutes and 25 seconds must you presume that doesn't apply to everyone?
Would it have been possible for your holy spirit experience to be real to you and how would you have known if it had been?
bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:00 pm
DavidLeon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:51 pmAnd now you know that that isn't possible. How does that feel? Surely you don't have to know if every claim in the universe is true. That too would be impossible for anyone.
If I can't know that the claim is true or false, then it is a useless claim for someone to make.
A claim is useless unless bluegreenearth can verify it. No more claims should be made without running them by you? You have a system of determining the validity of every possible claim which is infallible? Nothing is possible nor should even be claimed as possible until you verify it? All claims are useless to you unless they are true? How can you possibly Learn anything? Explore? Discover?
bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:00 pm
DavidLeon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:51 pmHmmm. And you require that logical justification? Interesting. How would you logically justify love?
You are making a false equivocation. Claims about the existence of the Holy Spirit are not equivalent to claims about the existence of emotional states such as love. If the Holy Spirit is equivalent to an emotional state, then it can't be demonstrated to exist independently from the human brain. Therefore, equating the Holy Spirit to love is not at all helpful.
I didn't equate the two I asked you how you would logically justify love. Love is something that you know is real but can you logically justify it? If you can't logically justify love knowing that it is real then you have to accept the possibility that something can be real without your ability to logically justify it. God is love. The holy spirit is God's active force.
bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:00 pm
DavidLeon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:51 pmAre you trying to convince yourself or someone else of something?
If I've made a valid point, then whether I am trying to convince myself or someone else shouldn't really matter.
I think that it might matter. It would have something to do with the confirmation bias I mentioned earlier in the thread. That's a two way street you know. If you are doing this as an intellectual exercise, a debate challenge how confident do you feel regarding your Biblical, Christian, and anecdotal observations?
What is the holy spirit and what does it do? Does it make people act strange, convulse, babble like an idiot, handle snakes and drink poison? Or does it guide and teach?