Ezekiel, the Exodus, and child sacrifice

[Difflugia]

In Ezekiel 20:23-26, an angry Yahweh said the following through the mouth of the prophet:

I also lifted up my hand against them in the desert, that I would scatter them among the nations, and disperse them through the countries ; because they did not observe mine ordinances, but despised my statutes, and polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after the idols of their fathers. Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances by which they should not live. And I polluted them in their offerings, in that they caused every first-born child to pass through the fire, that I might destroy them, to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.

The question for debate is, "what do these verses mean?"

[unknown soldier]

In Ezekiel 20:23-26, an angry Yahweh said the following through the mouth of the prophet:

I also lifted up my hand against them in the desert, that I would scatter them among the nations, and disperse them through the countries ; because they did not observe mine ordinances, but despised my statutes, and polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after the idols of their fathers. Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances by which they should not live. And I polluted them in their offerings, in that they caused every first-born child to pass through the fire, that I might destroy them, to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.

The question for debate is, "what do these verses mean?"

Yahweh is so upset that his "chosen people" have not chosen to obey him, that he has decided to disperse them far and wide. He's very jealous that they exercised their free will to worship the gods of their choice. So to get back at them for doing so, he caused them to burn their kids. He did all of this to let them know who he was.

Jehovah just doesn't seem to understand that to be loved, one must be lovable.

[Clownboat]

I was not notified of this reply from August...

Perhaps you would not be so cavalier about insulting the dead if they weren't... well... too dead to speak in their own defense.

Which dead did I insult? Can you name the victims please? Perhaps I owe an apology, but that cannot be known until my insult is pointed out.

It's always safest to attack those who can't protect themselves, I suppose

Again, please point to my attack. Perhaps I owe these victims an apology?

Crying foul when the impolite nature of your comments is pointed out to you is a little disappointing,

Please point out the impolite nature of my comment.
It seems that pointing out human sacrifice, virgin in nature in an ancient story has struck a chord with you. Why is that?

and to then boast about what a physical threat you might pose to anyone who questions you when your words aren't up to the task seems even less impressive.

I said that you would not be so cavalier in suggesting I'm a pedophile if you were not protected behind a keyboard. This is a sensible statement. Do you disagree? Now, please point out where you were physically threatened.

Anyways, did you actually have anything relevant to say about child sacrifice in Ezekiel and the Exodus?

Please see my first post and what I responded to:
Copy/paste from post #1 = The question for debate is, "what do these verses mean?"
Clownboats response = "Hard to say for sure, but child sacrifice cannot be excluded as it is included elsewhere."

[Mithrae]

I said that you would not be so cavalier in suggesting I'm a pedophile if you were not protected behind a keyboard. This is a sensible statement.

Good grief, talk about flogging a dead horse. Maybe I should be glad I'm protected from you Where on earth do you imagine that I suggested you're a pedophile? Please substantiate this claim, or apologize.

[Clownboat]

Good grief, talk about flogging a dead horse. Maybe I should be glad I'm protected from you Where on earth do you imagine that I suggested you're a pedophile? Please substantiate this claim, or apologize.

Post 4:

The real question that I have is what gives with all the gods and their desire for virgin girls?

Your reply in post 5:

Perhaps there is some projection here...... by critics rather than by the authors?

I am the critic, criticizing the seeming desire for virgin girls that many of the gods of old seemed to have had (or at least the followers assumed such a thing about them). I am not the author of the story.

Post 6:

The idea of projection is not appreciated and an undesireable thing for you to suggest even flippantly.

Even after explaining this in post 6, you still have no idea where i got this from?
And you're asking me to appoligize?

[Mithrae]

Good grief, talk about flogging a dead horse. Maybe I should be glad I'm protected from you Where on earth do you imagine that I suggested you're a pedophile? Please substantiate this claim, or apologize.

Post 4:

The real question that I have is what gives with all the gods and their desire for virgin girls?

Your reply in post 5:

Perhaps there is some projection here...... by critics rather than by the authors?

I am the critic, criticizing the seeming desire for virgin girls that many of the gods of old seemed to have had (or at least the followers assumed such a thing about them). I am not the author of the story.

Rather than taking the time to snip out partial quotes, why did you not simply provide the whole thing?

The real question that I have is what gives with all the gods and their desire for virgin girls?
Makes me wonder if all those god concepts are pedophiles or if ancient humans were just projecting their desires. One idea sure does make more sense then the other IMO.

There's nothing in that story suggesting that the Yahweh character wanted a human sacrifice of any kind. Perhaps there is some projection here... by critics rather than by the authors?

In a thread about purported child sacrifice in Ezekiel and the Exodus and following your five paragraphs in post #4 discussing the story of Jephthah from a different part of the Tanakh (in which there is no hint whatsoever of Yahweh wanting any kind of human sacrifice), you decided that your 'real question' was why "all the gods" supposedly desire virgin girls and suggested that their worshipers were pedophiles.

It's an obviously convoluted and defamatory line of thinking; but since you had introduced the accusation of projection, what might we imagine could be projected in order to produce that strange post? Some possibilities:
A > A critic might believe that the only reason for gift-giving is for the recipient's personal gratification, or more narrowly that the only reason for sacrifice is for the deity's gratification
B > A critic might believe that women's value lies primarily or only in their sexuality and hence infers that must be the purpose of such a sacrifice
C > Since you have suggested it multiple times now, I suppose that yes, a critic might have a particular desire for young girls and hence interpret textual references to them in that light
D > A critic might have a cynical, assume the worst of others approach to life through which the nastiest of motives are being projected into a text which says nothing of the sort

If you were to read the discussion carefully, you might note that I didn't even discuss your pedophile accusation at all: Instead the first two angles which I contemplated were A and B above; in the rest of post #5 I explained how the story suggests Jephthath's view of sacrifice as akin to human bargaining, giving something in order to get; and in post #10 I highlighted the absurdity of assuming that the only value of women/purpose of virgin sacrifice is sexual by reference to stories of virgins being given to dragons. Far from suggesting pedophilia on your part, I did quite the opposite and assumed that your comments were just some kind of nasty flame-bait and instead focused my responses on some less unsavoury ways of thinking about sacrifice and virgins.

But you seem determined to assume the worst about me. There are at least four possible types of projection which - since you introduced the idea - one might speculate as the cause for your convoluted and defamatory post #4; and after touching on A and B, current evidence is suggesting that maybe D is a little closer or more plausible? Having spent five paragraphs writing about Jephthah, you simply ignored the bulk of my post in response and instead began a months-long fixation on the worst possible interpretation of a single sentence in my reply. Perhaps you will even find some way to take umbrage at this attempt to correct your misconceptions

[Clownboat]

Rather than taking the time to snip out partial quotes, why did you not simply provide the whole thing?

I supplied what was relevant and supplied the post #'s. Please debate the topic, not the poster as that is against forum rules.

Please substantiate this claim, or apologize.

I supplied what was relevant and supplied the post #'s. Claim substantiated.

Perhaps there is some projection here...... by critics rather than by the authors?

I am the critic, criticizing the seeming desire for virgin girls that many of the gods of old seemed to have had (or at least the followers assumed such a thing about them). I am not the author of the story.

This reads plainly enough, therefore I met this request of yours: "Please substantiate this claim, or apologize"
You did not earned an apology.