Can Christians offer a money-back guarantee?

[unknown soldier]

We've all heard the sales pitch in which a business offers a money-back guarantee to all unsatisfied buyers. The business will tell consumers that they're so confident that purchasers will be pleased with the product, that the business can offer that kind of guarantee. The logic is that if a seller is sure that the seller's product is worth the purchase price, then the buyers will be pleased with that product and will not ask for their money back.

I agree with that logic. If people are confident that what they have to offer will please those who accept the offer, then there is no need to fear that anything exchanged for the offer will be demanded back. They can readily guarantee satisfaction accepting the risk of loss.

Why, then, do Christians not offer a money-back guarantee to any disgruntled person who tithed and donated money to a Christian group or church? It seems reasonable to me that if Christians truly believe that their religion is actually founded on a perfect God, then they would be completely confident that all comers would be pleased.

Maybe the clergy wants to cover itself just in case.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to koko in post #79]

Read Mark 10:30 and learn that a 100 fold material reward is guaranteed. Complete opposite of what you are saying.

No, Jesus is saying exactly what I am saying.

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Jesus is promising them that they will be persecuted. And that its exactly what happened to them. And in the world to come they will inherit eternal life. They were to have faith that they will receive their reward in heaven.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to koko in post #79]

Read Mark 10:30 and learn that a 100 fold material reward is guaranteed. Complete opposite of what you are saying.

No, Jesus is saying exactly what I am saying.

Says every single Christian on this planet!

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Jesus is promising them that they will be persecuted. And that its exactly what happened to them. And in the world to come they will inherit eternal life. They were to have faith that they will receive their reward in heaven.

I predict that flat earthers will be persecuted. I assume you are not impressed as people are often persecuted for good reason. Religious beliefs included at times, but as the saying goes, 'you made your bed and you need to sleep in it'. What there is not saying for is, 'X is correct, because X was presecuted'. That would be illogical thinking. I imagine that you agree.

[koko]

[Replying to koko in post #79]

Read Mark 10:30 and learn that a 100 fold material reward is guaranteed. Complete opposite of what you are saying.

No, Jesus is saying exactly what I am saying.

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Jesus is promising them that they will be persecuted. And that its exactly what happened to them. And in the world to come they will inherit eternal life. They were to have faith that they will receive their reward in heaven.

from your own quote:


But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands ...




those are material things - thank you for proving my point

[unknown soldier]

Man's actions (and lack of love toward his fellow man) led to the events of (and before) September 11... including man's false claims about what God wants.

That's exactly right. Men put their own words into the mouths of their gods which they then insist justify their often barbaric acts. Gods are very handy in the hands of those who wish to whitewash their cruel and deadly acts.

But Christ (who reveals God to us as God truly is), taught that we are to love even our enemies (to bless those who curse us; to do good to those who persecute us). So perhaps you might take a glance back at the post about love being the law on the previous page (I addressed it to koko, but anyone can read it), and about who (and how) Christ teaches us to love.

To "echo koko," I know what the Bible says. I've read the whole thing. Considering its content, I'm surprised that we don't have much more violence than we do. The Bible God is a killer from cover to cover. The passages you are so fond of quoting are cherry-picked and don't really reflect the violent and antisocial nature of the Bible. Those passages are the "smiles on the crocodile."

There is nothing blind about my allegiance to my Lord and to my God.

Then under what circumstances would you judge that you should disobey him? If you are unwilling to even consider disobedience, then your allegiance is blind.

And if I was ever told to do something like that (9-11), I would know that this is not from my Lord. Because my Lord has also taught me to TEST the inspired expressions. To hold all things up against the Light (Christ). And killing another person is against His commands as well as being against love.

You must differ from Abraham in that respect. He thought God told him to kill his own son Isaac, and he agreed to do so. You evidently would have told God no, and refusing to agree to carry out the sacrifice would be to your credit.

And you know this how?

If Jesus was crucified, then it happened almost 2,000 years before you were born! It also didn't benefit you in any way as far as I can tell. How could it have benefited you? It's just madness to say Christ died for you.

Did Socrates ever claim to have come to this world to give His life for many?

As far as I know he said no such thing, and if he did, then I would have much less respect for him. In any case, the death of Socrates wasn't "for me," and it would be nonsense to say it was. The same goes for the death of Christ. If he even ever lived, then he died because he got himself executed.

I'm not judging anything. I know my Lord speaks the truth. I am just listening to Him and believing what He has said. If you (general you) are truly His disciple, and your faith is truly in Him, how can you not believe (or do) what He said?

Well, you tell me--it's your religion. And I'm not sure what your response has to do with your hedging your "prayer bets." If you're that faithful disciple you say you are, then it seems reasonable to me that you would have confidence in Christ and not find ways to cover his failures if they happen!

It seems more like making up a god of your own choosing, according to your own reasoning.

Sure--why can I not make up my own God? As far as I can tell everybody else does. My made-up God would be every bit as real as your God, so what does that tell us about your God?

If you want to know who God is, then you must look to Christ - the Truth and Image of God.

I looked but found no real Christ but a make-believe character.

(and I'm not sure I know pf any parent who gives their children everything they want, with no conditions or work attached; not if they expect those children to turn into mature and responsible adults)

So your God has the same weaknesses as people do. What that tells me is that he's the creation of people.

I didn't see that as your point, sorry. What you asked me is why don't I just "pray the trouble away".

Why don't you pray your troubles away? You said all your prayers have been answered. Did you not think about praying that your troubles be taken away?

Of course, your troubles are still with you because there's no God to take them away.

I think you might be deflecting the point that your claim (that God is intolerant of imperfect humans) is incorrect.

Not at all. I was just saying that it's easy for me to come up with better ways to solve problems than what the Bible God comes up with. I could never come up with an answer to the question: is he more stupid than cruel, or more cruel than stupid?

(And the one who ate the fruit is the one who caused the hurt... to himself, to the world that had been given him to govern, to his own offspring.)

It's just plain crazy to condemn the whole world because our original mother ate some fruit!

Actually, I posted a verse where it is said that women disciples were supporting them out of their own means. If you are claiming that does not count as evidence, then where is your evidence that they kept a common purse at all? Where is your evidence for any of your claims and accusations?

OK, I think I already pointed out that there is evidence for the gospel story assuming we count the word of unknown religious cultists as evidence.

And thanks for pointing out that the gospel tale tells us that the donations that filled the purse came from women. Are you saying that the money the women put in the purse doesn't count as donations?

[tam]

Peace again to you koko!

Peace to you!
...
(which water is holy spirit, poured out from the LIFE - Christ Jaheshua - as the Father has given to Him without end)
...
Peace again to you dear koko, and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ (Jaheshua),
tammy

Thank you for the kind words. But as well meant as they are, the biblical assurances you quote remain of no value unless and until this god backs up all those promises with action.

May I ask which quoted biblical assurances from my post you are referring to?

As a literary scholar, I have read the Bible from cover to cover including every book, every chapter, every verse, every word, every punctuation mark. Thus, there is no real need for a repetition of these biblical quotes.

Yes, many people make this claim (and it may even be true). But there are many people who study the bible, even spend their lives doing so, all claiming they need no scriptures quoted to them... and yet these same many people don't understand what they are reading. These same many people disagree with one another on what is written or meant. Unknown soldier makes the same claim is you. But if it were true that you and he understand everything as well as you claim, why did I need to post about love (as Christ taught), in response to the claim that without the OT commandments still being in place, we would be free to commit evil with impunity?

viewtopic.php?p=1020285#p1020285


As Christ has said,

"You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify to me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

All that studying and still those people missed the Truth standing and speaking directly in front of them. How much did they have wrong despite their studying? How much did Christ have to correct them about, despite their reading?

The time has come for action to benefit me as it has worked for you and all others on this forum who have enjoyed their god's selectivity and special favors.

Did you not read the part where I posted about some brothers and sisters who have health issues as well? Some quite debilitating (as to the flesh)? I mean, if you are going to compare yourself to others (and that is not what we are called to do; Christ never taught us to do that)... then aren't you going to have to compare yourself also to those who do have illness and pain, and yet remain faithful, even to the point of death (just as Christ remained faithful, even unto His death)?

That being said, we are supposed to be keeping our eyes upon Christ, the Copper Serpent, following Him, listening to Him, keeping His word and His commands (which we will do if we love Him). To compare ourselves to other people, we have to take your eyes OFF Christ, the Copper Serpent.

And what did Christ say to Peter when Peter asked about what would happen with another disciple?

"What is that to you? You must follow me."


It is not about us, dear koko. It is about Christ.

If this god has no intention of fulfilling his promises and taking corrective action, then he should tell you not to bother quoting the Bible as the source for all action is him, not any one else.

Assuming I have understood your post correctly, that is not true. There are conditions (for man) attached to any promises made.


Including, "Seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness"... (not our own).



**

As to the flesh (and its ailments), again that is part of this world. Happens to all of us, some of us might have more a trial with the flesh than others (not to mention that the Adversary will try and use whatever he can, to get us to give up our faith, to 'curse God and die', as he tried with Job)... but at some point, Christian and non-Christian alike, we all get sick, we all get hurt, and we all die (until Christ returns, that is).





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Peace to you,

Man's actions (and lack of love toward his fellow man) led to the events of (and before) September 11... including man's false claims about what God wants.

That's exactly right. Men put their own words into the mouths of their gods which they then insist justify their often barbaric acts. Gods are very handy in the hands of those who wish to whitewash their cruel and deadly acts.

Then we are in agreement that man, not God, committed those events.

But Christ (who reveals God to us as God truly is), taught that we are to love even our enemies (to bless those who curse us; to do good to those who persecute us). So perhaps you might take a glance back at the post about love being the law on the previous page (I addressed it to koko, but anyone can read it), and about who (and how) Christ teaches us to love.

To "echo koko," I know what the Bible says. I've read the whole thing. Considering its content, I'm surprised that we don't have much more violence than we do. The Bible God is a killer from cover to cover. The passages you are so fond of quoting are cherry-picked and don't really reflect the violent and antisocial nature of the Bible. Those passages are the "smiles on the crocodile."

If you are going to echo koko, then my response to koko in the post above will apply to you as well.

And the passages that I quoted are teachings from Christ - He (not the bible) is the Truth and the Image of God. He is the One to whom God said to listen. Not the Bible. Not religion. Not the doctrines and traditions of men. Just His Son.

There is nothing blind about my allegiance to my Lord and to my God.

Then under what circumstances would you judge that you should disobey him? If you are unwilling to even consider disobedience, then your allegiance is blind.

See below (where I had already responded to this question):

And if I was ever told to do something like that (9-11), I would know that this is not from my Lord. Because my Lord has also taught me to TEST the inspired expressions. To hold all things up against the Light (Christ). And killing another person is against His commands as well as being against love.

**

And you know this how?

If Jesus was crucified, then it happened almost 2,000 years before you were born! It also didn't benefit you in any way as far as I can tell. How could it have benefited you? It's just madness to say Christ died for you.

You understand that you're not going to see the resurrection (and receiving eternal life) until Christ returns, right?

But since I can be assured of this (from my Lord), I have peace (and love and forgiveness) now, knowing that these blessings and promises are for me (and for my household).

I'm not judging anything. I know my Lord speaks the truth. I am just listening to Him and believing what He has said. If you (general you) are truly His disciple, and your faith is truly in Him, how can you not believe (or do) what He said?

Well, you tell me-- it's your religion.

My faith (and some common sense) tells me that if we are calling ourselves the disciple of another person, then we believe and do what that person says. I don't know how a person calls themselves His disciple, and yet does not believe or do what He has said. Unless they are not truly His disciple after all (barring someone who simply had not realized something Christ teaches - though that person would correct themselves upon learning the truth, if they were His disciple, yes?)

And I'm not sure what your response has to do with your hedging your "prayer bets." If you're that faithful disciple you say you are, then it seems reasonable to me that you would have confidence in Christ and not find ways to cover his failures if they happen!

Once again, I am not hedging any bets. I am just listening to what Christ said (and did). Just because you think prayer (and requests) should be heard and/or answered unconditionally, does not make this true.

It seems more like making up a god of your own choosing, according to your own reasoning.

Sure--why can I not make up my own God?

You can. And you can then receive whatever that god is capable of giving.

As far as I can tell everybody else does. My made-up God would be every bit as real as your God, so what does that tell us about your God?

It tells me nothing about my God. Because of course your claim (in the bold) is both unproven and incorrect.

If you want to know who God is, then you must look to Christ - the Truth and Image of God.

I looked but found no real Christ but a make-believe character.

Your response does not seem to follow what I wrote.

If you want to know WHO God is (what He is like; what He desires; what He wants of us), then you must look to Christ. Christ is the image of God. Christ is the Truth of God.

(and I'm not sure I know pf any parent who gives their children everything they want, with no conditions or work attached; not if they expect those children to turn into mature and responsible adults)

So your God has the same weaknesses as people do. What that tells me is that he's the creation of people.

What weakness are you referring to?

I didn't see that as your point, sorry. What you asked me is why don't I just "pray the trouble away".

Why don't you pray your troubles away? You said all your prayers have been answered. Did you not think about praying that your troubles be taken away?

No, I did not. For exactly the reason I gave in my original response. Christ said that we will have trouble in this world! Do I not believe Him?

I think you might be deflecting the point that your claim (that God is intolerant of imperfect humans) is incorrect.

Not at all. I was just saying that it's easy for me to come up with better ways to solve problems than what the Bible God comes up with. I could never come up with an answer to the question: is he more stupid than cruel, or more cruel than stupid?

So you admit that your claim (that God is intolerant of imperfect humans) is incorrect? If not, then why not address the questions/points that I asked?

(and your question is not much different than if I asked you, 'have you stopped beating your wife'?)

(And the one who ate the fruit is the one who caused the hurt... to himself, to the world that had been given him to govern, to his own offspring.)

It's just plain crazy to condemn the whole world because our original mother ate some fruit!

Obviously there is more to it than just eating some fruit. But since you know the bible so well, you must already know this, right?

Actually, I posted a verse where it is said that women disciples were supporting them out of their own means. If you are claiming that does not count as evidence, then where is your evidence that they kept a common purse at all? Where is your evidence for any of your claims and accusations?

OK, I think I already pointed out that there is evidence for the gospel story assuming we count the word of unknown religious cultists as evidence.

I think you have claimed both now, but okay...

And thanks for pointing out that the gospel tale tells us that the donations that filled the purse came from women.

The women disciples with them, yes. Of course, you must already have known that, right?

Are you saying that the money the women put in the purse doesn't count as donations?

Not at all. This was money that the women disciples with Christ and the apostles made and used to support them, of their own means.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[koko]

Peace again to you koko!

May I ask which quoted biblical assurances from my post you are referring to?


Yes, many people make this claim (and it may even be true). But there are many people who study the bible, even spend their lives doing so, all claiming they need no scriptures quoted to them... and yet these same many people don't understand what they are reading.


As Christ has said,

"You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify to me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." ... "Seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness"... (not our own).

... but at some point, Christian and non-Christian alike, we all get sick, we all get hurt, and we all die (until Christ returns, that is).

Again, thank you for the kind words but as before, these quotes are of no value unless and until they are backed up with actions of the type stated in the bible. Quote all the biblical verses you want, repeat them again and again. But they are of no value at all and just in one ear and out the other. This because only actions matter. That is why Jesus backed up everything with action and pledged to ALWAYS be that way. If he ever develops the character to manfully back up those promises with action like he did in biblical times, I would gladly go to any church he directs me to. Again, I am glad he has taken the necessary actions to satisfy your needs. Now it's time for people like me to get those same blessings as well. If you were me and had to go through the hellish life I went through you would say the same thing.

[tam]

Peace to you,

I thought I might go back to the OP for a moment...

We've all heard the sales pitch in which a business offers a money-back guarantee to all unsatisfied buyers. The business will tell consumers that they're so confident that purchasers will be pleased with the product, that the business can offer that kind of guarantee. The logic is that if a seller is sure that the seller's product is worth the purchase price, then the buyers will be pleased with that product and will not ask for their money back.

Sure...

I agree with that logic. If people are confident that what they have to offer will please those who accept the offer, then there is no need to fear that anything exchanged for the offer will be demanded back. They can readily guarantee satisfaction accepting the risk of loss.

Sure.... though I am curious what it is that you (and/or others) think you have given to God, that you want back?

Why, then, do Christians not offer a money-back guarantee to any disgruntled person who tithed and donated money to a Christian group or church?

I suppose that is a question that you would have to ask "Christendom".

Christ teaches His Body (which is the Church, His Church, the ONE Church) to give. That is the only Church I am part OF.

Religions (including the sects and denominations in Christianity) solicit or even demand money (then make money off those donations or tithes, investing, purchasing land and properties, paying no taxes, etc; not to mention whatever might literally have been stolen from other cultures and peoples). That has nothing to do with Christ though, and none of that is what He taught His sheep to do. Christ paid even His and His apostles' tax (Matthew 17:25 - 27). Considering His words to Peter at that time, one might want to think about just whose sons and daughters all these sects and denominations truly are:

“What do you think, Simon?” He asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect customs and taxes: from their own sons, or from others?”

“From others,” Peter answered.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[unknown soldier]

Then we are in agreement that man, not God, committed those events.

An imaginary God cannot blow up buildings, but the people who insist on imagining him can and do blow up buildings. Your imaginary God according to the Bible's myths did things far worse than what as done on September 11. The danger comes in when people try to make that mythology real.

And the passages that I quoted are teachings from Christ - He (not the bible) is the Truth and the Image of God. He is the One to whom God said to listen. Not the Bible. Not religion. Not the doctrines and traditions of men. Just His Son.

Hmmm. So the Bible is not true and we should not listen to it. The problem is that Christ is in the Bible...

While you're trying to come up with a way to slip out of that one, let me introduce to you your Celestial Mother, Clarymda. She is the one and only true Goddess. She has come into the world and has appointed me her prophet. She is The Truth. She is grieved by this world of evil and its people worshiping false gods. She loves you and has told me she wants you to commune with her. Give your heart to Clarymda, and stop your rebellion of unbelief!

See below (where I had already responded to this question):

But Tam, you're just saying that you would refuse to believe what your false god wants--not that you would ever disobey it. But consider Clarymda; she would never kill anybody, and she has told me so. She would consider it blasphemy if anybody ever thought she acted like the Bible god.

You understand that you're not going to see the resurrection (and receiving eternal life) until Christ returns, right?

Clarymda has told me that Christ is a false god. In addition, the resurrection stories you believe are mere fables. Clarymda takes us all to the cosmic abode on waves of light to live eternally as pure energy.

But since I can be assured of this (from my Lord), I have peace (and love and forgiveness) now, knowing that these blessings and promises are for me (and for my household).

You can only have peace and love from Clarymda. And with her, you need no forgiveness at all because she holds no grudges against any of her creatures. She understands our imperfections and limitations unlike a false god created by people who wants to harm us for what we cannot help.

My faith (and some common sense) tells me that if we are calling ourselves the disciple of another person, then we believe and do what that person says. I don't know how a person calls themselves His disciple, and yet does not believe or do what He has said. Unless they are not truly His disciple after all (barring someone who simply had not realized something Christ teaches - though that person would correct themselves upon learning the truth, if they were His disciple, yes?)

Unlike your man-made Christ, Clarymda realizes that we will not and cannot obey everything she says. So she grants us true freedom to think for ourselves and act as we see fit. She only intervenes when she needs to protect us.

Once again, I am not hedging any bets. I am just listening to what Christ said (and did). Just because you think prayer (and requests) should be heard and/or answered unconditionally, does not make this true.

Clarymda doesn't play games like that. She never promised that we will receive what we ask for.

You can. And you can then receive whatever that god is capable of giving.

I have received love and peace from Clarymda.

It tells me nothing about my God. Because of course your claim (in the bold) is both unproven and incorrect.

LOL--you'll never prove that Christ is more real than my Celestial Mother!

If you want to know WHO God is (what He is like; what He desires; what He wants of us), then you must look to Christ. Christ is the image of God. Christ is the Truth of God.

I have found Clarymda. What need do I have for a false Christ who does nothing?

What weakness are you referring to?

Your God can do no more and reveal no more than what the people who created him can do or can know.

Christ said that we will have trouble in this world! Do I not believe Him?

Well, you believe what the people who created Christ have said. Clarymda would never tell us anything that we already know--that we will have troubles.

So you admit that your claim (that God is intolerant of imperfect humans) is incorrect?

Where did I say that I was incorrect?

(and your question is not much different than if I asked you, 'have you stopped beating your wife'?)

I was asking myself if the god you believe in is more stupid than cruel or more cruel than stupid. Clarymda is neither!

The women disciples with them, yes. Of course, you must already have known that, right?

Then the common purse was full of donations! It doesn't matter who donated the money.

And by the way, my Celestial Mother never asks for money. She knows full well that only false gods need money.

I'll be praying for you, Tam!

[tam]

Peace to you,

Then we are in agreement that man, not God, committed those events.

An imaginary God cannot blow up buildings, but the people who insist on imagining him can and do blow up buildings.

Like I said, we are in agreement that man, not God, did those things.

Your imaginary God according to the Bible's myths did things far worse than what as done on September 11. The danger comes in when people try to make that mythology real.

When they try to make a god in their own image, according to their own desires, yes, that is often true. Isn't that what you're doing, not just with your new pretend game, but previously just in our conversation?

Regardless of your opinion, though, my God requires that I listen to His Son - His Truth - and that Son teaches those things that I posted about love. I believe you called it 'cherry-picking' but you are the one cherry-picking which verses in the bible you think represent God and which verses do not.

And the passages that I quoted are teachings from Christ - He (not the bible) is the Truth and the Image of God. He is the One to whom God said to listen. Not the Bible. Not religion. Not the doctrines and traditions of men. Just His Son.

Hmmm. So the Bible is not true and we should not listen to it. The problem is that Christ is in the Bible...

Some of His words and teachings and deeds are recorded there, yes. Even if you were only able to go by what is written, shouldn't His words come first?

"This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to Him."

Did you overlook that? Not understand it?

While you're trying to come up with a way to slip out of that one,

There is nothing to slip out of.

See below (where I had already responded to this question):

But Tam, you're just saying that you would refuse to believe what your false god wants--not that you would ever disobey it.

Yeah, I didn't say anything like that. Perhaps you should re-read.

But since I can be assured of this (from my Lord), I have peace (and love and forgiveness) now, knowing that these blessings and promises are for me (and for my household).

You can only have peace and love from Clarymda.

Since I have these already from my Lord, this is obviously false. What does that say about your 'made-up' goddess being the truth? In fact, what does it say about you that you are just making stuff up that you know to be false?

I'm not doing that. You are the one choosing to do that. I didn't come to you to talk about some god that you made up; you can do whatever you want. What is it to me? You are the one asking Christians questions, and just because you don't like the answers you have received, you're playing some silly game. That is your choice as well, but I feel no need to waste my time on it.

My faith (and some common sense) tells me that if we are calling ourselves the disciple of another person, then we believe and do what that person says. I don't know how a person calls themselves His disciple, and yet does not believe or do what He has said. Unless they are not truly His disciple after all (barring someone who simply had not realized something Christ teaches - though that person would correct themselves upon learning the truth, if they were His disciple, yes?)

Unlike...

You realize that you continue to avoid the point and deflect the question, right? Since that is all you have done with most of this post, there is no reason for me to continue to respond just to call it out.

What weakness are you referring to?

Your God can do no more and reveal no more than what the people who created him can do or can know.

I think you might have lost the original point being questioned.

Because it is more like this... if even man can know something simple about parenting, how much more must it be known by God?

So you admit that your claim (that God is intolerant of imperfect humans) is incorrect?

Where did I say that I was incorrect?

My FULL response (which you did not fully quote) was the following:

So you admit that your claim (that God is intolerant of imperfect humans) is incorrect? If not, then why not address the questions/points that I asked?

(and your question is not much different than if I asked you, 'have you stopped beating your wife'?)

I was asking myself if the god you believe in is more stupid than cruel or more cruel than stupid.

And I said that this is not much different than the question 'have you stopped beating your wife?'

The women disciples with them, yes. Of course, you must already have known that, right?

Then the common purse was full of donations! It doesn't matter who donated the money.

And at least some of the disciples in the first century pooled all their belongings together and shared everything. So what?

Nothing was solicited. And Christ had no place to even lay his head, remember?

Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy