Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

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jimtatertayte
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Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #1

Post by jimtatertayte »

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

How many times have you spoken the word of God to someone
and it did not give them any faith?

Atheist read the words of God and it does not change them or give them any faith.

Many many people saw Jesus with their own eyes raise the dead and heal the lame, sick and blind
it did not give them any faith nor did it convert them. Many many people
walked and followed Jesus but turned back. Even His own 12 apostles had little faith,
for Jesus was always rebuking them for their lack of faith
and one of them betrayed Him.

So...Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

And where and how do you obtain your faith?

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #2

Post by The Tanager »

[Replying to jimtatertayte in post #1]

I assume you are talking about Romans 10:17. I think you are misunderstanding what is being claimed. Paul isn't saying that all who hear the message will come to faith, but that in order to come to faith you have to hear the message. Hearing the message is necessary but not sufficient.

So, to answer your questions:

1. I don't think our experience of people rejecting the message makes this statement a lie.

2. I think faith is obtained through interactions with God and reasoning about reality.

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #3

Post by jimtatertayte »

The Tanager wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:13 am [Replying to jimtatertayte in post #1]

I assume you are talking about Romans 10:17. I think you are misunderstanding what is being claimed. Paul isn't saying that all who hear the message will come to faith, but that in order to come to faith you have to hear the message. Hearing the message is necessary but not sufficient.

So, to answer your questions:

1. I don't think our experience of people rejecting the message makes this statement a lie.

2. I think faith is obtained through interactions with God and reasoning about reality.
You have way to many unnecessary words for me trying to express yourself to me, please narrow all this down to it's lowest common denominator so as it leaves no doubt as to what you are trying to say to me.
Then we can continue with it.

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #4

Post by jimtatertayte »

The Tanager wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:13 am [Replying to jimtatertayte in post #1]

I assume you are talking about Romans 10:17. I think you are misunderstanding what is being claimed. Paul isn't saying that all who hear the message will come to faith, but that in order to come to faith you have to hear the message. Hearing the message is necessary but not sufficient.

So, to answer your questions:

1. I don't think our experience of people rejecting the message makes this statement a lie.

2. I think faith is obtained through interactions with God and reasoning about reality.
Even if someone hears the word of God spoken to them
and they reject it is proof that it did not give them the faith to believe it.

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #5

Post by The Tanager »

jimtatertayte wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:33 amEven if someone hears the word of God spoken to them
and they reject it is proof that it did not give them the faith to believe it.
I agree. I also think Paul agrees. In verse 16 Paul says not all the Israelites accepted the good news. In verse 18 Paul says that the Israelites did hear the message (and gives scriptures to back it up). In other words, Paul does not mean what you think he means. He is not saying that everyone who hears the message will have faith.

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #6

Post by jimtatertayte »

The Tanager wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:40 am
jimtatertayte wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:33 amEven if someone hears the word of God spoken to them
and they reject it is proof that it did not give them the faith to believe it.
I agree. I also think Paul agrees. In verse 16 Paul says not all the Israelites accepted the good news. In verse 18 Paul says that the Israelites did hear the message (and gives scriptures to back it up). In other words, Paul does not mean what you think he means. He is not saying that everyone who hears the message will have faith.
Romans 12:3
God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Therefore any measure of faith anyone has of it
was measured out to them by the Spirit of God.
True or false?

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #7

Post by PinSeeker »

He may have "too many words" for you Jim (although, really, what he said was quite concise), but he's right. Hearing, in and of itself, is not sufficient. This may help:

In addition to what he said in Romans 10:17, that faith comes by hearing, Paul also said in Ephesians 2:8 that faith is the gift of God as a result of His grace and mercy (and thus not something that we muster up in ourselves). Now, this is not a contradiction in any way, but we must reconcile these two things. For help in doing this, it would be helpful to remember what Paul also said in Romans 9:15-16, that God has mercy and compassion on whom He chooses -- he is citing an Old Testament passage here -- so it does not depend on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. So, putting all this together, yes, one can hear, but if God does not have mercy and work faith in the person through that hearing -- which is His sovereign choice -- faith in that person will not happen.

Nobody "started a lie." Unless you want to accuse God Himself, Who, by His Holy Spirit, is the ultimate Author of all of scripture, of that... but I wouldn't advise that... :) At any rate, this should be easy enough to understand. Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #8

Post by jimtatertayte »

PinSeeker wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:25 am He may have "too many words" for you Jim (although, really, what he said was quite concise), but he's right. Hearing, in and of itself, is not sufficient. This may help:

In addition to what he said in Romans 10:17, that faith comes by hearing, Paul also said in Ephesians 2:8 that faith is the gift of God as a result of His grace and mercy (and thus not something that we muster up in ourselves). Now, this is not a contradiction in any way, but we must reconcile these two things. For help in doing this, it would be helpful to remember what Paul also said in Romans 9:15-16, that God has mercy and compassion on whom He chooses -- he is citing an Old Testament passage here -- so it does not depend on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. So, putting all this together, yes, one can hear, but if God does not have mercy and work faith in the person through that hearing -- which is His sovereign choice -- faith in that person will not happen.

Nobody "started a lie." Unless you want to accuse God Himself, Who, by His Holy Spirit, is the ultimate Author of all of scripture, of that... but I wouldn't advise that... :) At any rate, this should be easy enough to understand. Grace and peace to you.
Romans 12:3
God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Therefore any measure of faith anyone has of it
was measured out to them by the Spirit of God.
True or false?

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #9

Post by 2timothy316 »

jimtatertayte wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:15 am
The Tanager wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:40 am
jimtatertayte wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:33 amEven if someone hears the word of God spoken to them
and they reject it is proof that it did not give them the faith to believe it.
I agree. I also think Paul agrees. In verse 16 Paul says not all the Israelites accepted the good news. In verse 18 Paul says that the Israelites did hear the message (and gives scriptures to back it up). In other words, Paul does not mean what you think he means. He is not saying that everyone who hears the message will have faith.
Romans 12:3
God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Therefore any measure of faith anyone has of it
was measured out to them by the Spirit of God.
True or false?
The reason the letters Paul wrote are named the way they are is because they are letters to the congregations in that city, area or person are addressed. When Paul writes, "God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." He was not speaking to the whole world, he was speaking to Christians. In other words, the answer to your question is false as Paul was not speaking about just anyone.

2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." The Bible is addressed to those that want to listen and not to those that don't.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who Started That Lie Faith Comes by Hearing the Word of God?

Post #10

Post by jimtatertayte »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:51 am
jimtatertayte wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:15 am
The Tanager wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:40 am
jimtatertayte wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:33 amEven if someone hears the word of God spoken to them
and they reject it is proof that it did not give them the faith to believe it.
I agree. I also think Paul agrees. In verse 16 Paul says not all the Israelites accepted the good news. In verse 18 Paul says that the Israelites did hear the message (and gives scriptures to back it up). In other words, Paul does not mean what you think he means. He is not saying that everyone who hears the message will have faith.
Romans 12:3
God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Therefore any measure of faith anyone has of it
was measured out to them by the Spirit of God.
True or false?
The reason the letters Paul wrote are named the way they are is because they are letters to the congregations in that city, area or person. When Paul writes, "God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." He was not speaking to the whole world, he was speaking to Christians. In other words, the answer to your question is false as Paul was not speaking to just anyone.
If your faith does not come from the Spirit of God
then which spirit gives you your faith?

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