Being free, truly.

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Bobcat
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Being free, truly.

Post #1

Post by Bobcat »

As it is written;

“If the son frees you, you’ll truly be free.“

Another;

“If you abide in my word you are truly my disciple then you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.”

Notice each verse claims to set you free. Why? Because they are essentially saying the same thing.

When one abides or continues in spreading Gods word they are the son. That is how the son frees you.

Has the son freed you as described?

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #11

Post by Bobcat »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:40 pm
Bobcat wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:46 amAs it is written;

“I shall declare the decrees of the Lord; He said to me, you are my son, this day I have begotten you.”

“Israel is my son, my first born, let my son go so he can serve me.”

Notice the two verses in which a God declares a son. In each verse the son serves God.

In the first he is declaring Gods decrees, His word. Same as in the OP.

So it is those who serve God and declare His Word who are the son and Israel, His servant.
You use the words ‘serve’ and ‘servant’ a total of four times in that post. Plus we have a god’s ‘decrees’ (official orders carrying the force of law) which suggests that this particular freedom comes with some limitations.

I submit that a servant can never be truly free - by definition. If you are equating ‘son’ with ‘servant’, then any ‘son’ is not truly free.
Truly free is freed by the truth. God’s word is truth. So yes, the servant and son of God are truly free.

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Diagoras
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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #12

Post by Diagoras »

Bobcat wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:19 pmTruly free is freed by the truth.
That’s a different definition of ‘free’ from any of the many definitions I could find in common usage. See here for exampe:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free

Perhaps your position could be strengthened if you could somehow show that it also pertained to a meaning of ‘free’ such as “not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself”.
God’s word is truth.
I’d need to see some evidence to be convinced of this claim. Noting that “It says so in the bible” leads us into a circular argument, it would have to be evidence of a different kind. I’m not sure what that might look like, but am willing to hear what you have to say.

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #13

Post by Clownboat »

Bobcat wrote:Truly free is freed by the truth.

Your sentence is nonsensical unfortunately.

free
adjective
1.
not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
2.
not or no longer confined or imprisoned.

How your sentence reads:
Truly not under the control of another is not being under the control of another by the truth.

Can you make sense of this statement you made?
God’s word is truth.
Um, OK... Empty religious claim, but since it is an irrelevant claim, there is no need to show that you speak the truth.
So yes, the servant and son of God are truly free.
serv·ant
noun
a person who performs duties for others, especially a person employed in a house on domestic duties or as a personal attendant.

Again, not sure what you are trying to convey. Perhaps English is not your native language? A person serving another is not truly free though. They may be hired to serve meals for example. This does not mean they are free to do as they please. Therefore they are not truly free in this example.

Side note...
If you had a god on your side, wouldn't your post reflect such a thing? I would have a hard time believing that a god would struggle with English.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #14

Post by Bobcat »

Clownboat wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:08 pm
Bobcat wrote:Truly free is freed by the truth.

Your sentence is nonsensical unfortunately.

free
adjective
1.
not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
2.
not or no longer confined or imprisoned.

How your sentence reads:
Truly not under the control of another is not being under the control of another by the truth.

Can you make sense of this statement you made?
God’s word is truth.
Um, OK... Empty religious claim, but since it is an irrelevant claim, there is no need to show that you speak the truth.
So yes, the servant and son of God are truly free.
serv·ant
noun
a person who performs duties for others, especially a person employed in a house on domestic duties or as a personal attendant.

Again, not sure what you are trying to convey. Perhaps English is not your native language? A person serving another is not truly free though. They may be hired to serve meals for example. This does not mean they are free to do as they please. Therefore they are not truly free in this example.

Side note...
If you had a god on your side, wouldn't your post reflect such a thing? I would have a hard time believing that a god would struggle with English.
Trying to understand scripture using a dictionary is a losing prospect.

God has His own dictionary. He doesn’t converse as man does. Hence the saying;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts, as high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #15

Post by brunumb »

Bobcat wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:55 pm Trying to understand scripture using a dictionary is a losing prospect.

God has His own dictionary. He doesn’t converse as man does. Hence the saying;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts, as high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”

Which really means that trying to understand scripture is a losing prospect.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #16

Post by Miles »

Bobcat wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:55 pm
Clownboat wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:08 pm
Bobcat wrote:Truly free is freed by the truth.

Your sentence is nonsensical unfortunately.

free
adjective
1.
not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
2.
not or no longer confined or imprisoned.

How your sentence reads:
Truly not under the control of another is not being under the control of another by the truth.

Can you make sense of this statement you made?
God’s word is truth.
Um, OK... Empty religious claim, but since it is an irrelevant claim, there is no need to show that you speak the truth.
So yes, the servant and son of God are truly free.
serv·ant
noun
a person who performs duties for others, especially a person employed in a house on domestic duties or as a personal attendant.

Again, not sure what you are trying to convey. Perhaps English is not your native language? A person serving another is not truly free though. They may be hired to serve meals for example. This does not mean they are free to do as they please. Therefore they are not truly free in this example.

Side note...
If you had a god on your side, wouldn't your post reflect such a thing? I would have a hard time believing that a god would struggle with English.
Trying to understand scripture using a dictionary is a losing prospect.

God has His own dictionary. He doesn’t converse as man does. Hence the saying;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts, as high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”
Or as others have interpreted Isaiah 55:8-9

EHV
Certainly my plans are not your plans, and your ways are not my ways, declares the Lord.
Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my plans are higher than your plans.

VOICE
Eternal One: My intentions are not always yours, and I do not go about things as you do.
My thoughts and My ways are above and beyond you, just as heaven is far from your reach here on earth.

WYC
For why my thoughts be not your thoughts, and my ways be not your ways, saith the Lord.
For as (the) heavens be raised (up) from (the) earth, so my ways be raised (up) from your ways, and my thoughts from your thoughts.


So in god's dictionary what's the correct English word for מַחֲשָׁבָה (machashabah), in Isaiah 55:8: "ways," "plans," "intentions," or "thoughts"?


.

Bobcat
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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #17

Post by Bobcat »

machashabah
Pronunciation
makh·ash·ä·vä' (Key)

Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From חָשַׁב (H2803)

Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 767d

KJV Translation Count — Total: 56x
The KJV translates Strong's H4284 in the following manner: thought (28x), device (12x), purpose (6x), work (3x), imaginations (3x), cunning (1x), devised (1x), invented (1x), means (1x).

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #18

Post by Diagoras »

Bobcat wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:02 pm machashabah
Pronunciation
makh·ash·ä·vä' (Key)

Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From חָשַׁב (H2803)

Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 767d

KJV Translation Count — Total: 56x
The KJV translates Strong's H4284 in the following manner: thought (28x), device (12x), purpose (6x), work (3x), imaginations (3x), cunning (1x), devised (1x), invented (1x), means (1x).
How is that information above helpful here? After all, didn’t you very recently say:
Bobcat wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:55 pmTrying to understand scripture using a dictionary is a losing prospect.

God has His own dictionary.
I think what’s happening here is that a trite and equivocal statement like “Truly free is freed by the truth” gets called out for being generic and ambiguous, and the poster is requested to clarify. Then, (predictably), those seeking clarification are told that they can’t possibly understand the ‘mysterious ways’ of the poster’s deity.

It would be more productive - and honest - to keep these sorts of statements about truth and love and so on, to just one’s personal opinion. Saying something like, “When I pray to God, I feel free from worry” would be a much better starting point for a discussion.

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #19

Post by Clownboat »

Bobcat wrote:Trying to understand scripture using a dictionary is a losing prospect.

God has His own dictionary. He doesn’t converse as man does. Hence the saying;

“Your ways are not my ways nor are your thoughts my thoughts, as high as the heavens are above the earth that’s how high my ways are above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.”
Seems like an excuse to justify contradictions and nonsensical statements in the Bible.

It is not logical that a god would produce a book with a message for everyone, but then require pastors, priests and random internet posters to then decipher and explain said book.

I have read the book, and the thoughts of this god can not be shown to be anything more than human imagination. Like all other god concepts and claims about them. That is one thing all religions have in common.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Being free, truly.

Post #20

Post by Menotu »

Bobcat wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:22 pm As it is written;

“If the son frees you, you’ll truly be free.“

Another;

“If you abide in my word you are truly my disciple then you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.”

Notice each verse claims to set you free. Why? Because they are essentially saying the same thing.

When one abides or continues in spreading Gods word they are the son. That is how the son frees you.

Has the son freed you as described?
One seems to be speaking to the 'son' why the other is speaking to 'the word/truth'. I don't see them as having to be the same thing. I also don't see anything absolutely saying when one abides/truly a disciple setting you free, son or no. It's a nice thought, though.
:?

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