Christianity and Hatred for People

[unknown soldier]

Is there a relationship between Christianity and hatred for people? I've read that early on the critics of Christianity accused it of being hatred for humanity. Most apologists would strongly deny such a charge. They tell us that Christ taught love and that all those who would hate in his name are acting against his teachings. To begin to resolve this disagreement, let's take a look at what two "locals" have to say.

By what the Bible tells, God has decided to give eternal life for righteous and others will die.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but therighteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift ofGod is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

I think that is good, because if unrighteous people would live forever, they would turn the eternal life into eternal suffering for all, which I think would not be nice.

I don’t think death is evil.

I am sure that those that look at these societies that God destroyed and know they are doing the things that God destroyed these societies do look at these acts in fear, and dread. If they do not look at these societies that God destroyed with fear and dread then the next best thing is blame and denial...

...God knows the future. God knew the eternal destiny of all of those that He put to death before He sentenced them to eternal separation from His goodness. That is what dying without belief in Jesus or in this case God is eternal separation from the goodness of God.

When I read comments like these I tend to feel threatened and degraded. Am I such a worthless wretch that my life can be snuffed out any time at the Christian God's whim, and Christians would just shrug their shoulders saying I got what I deserved? Can my entire community be destroyed if some "guy in the sky" judges it to be disobedient to him?

In any event, I sure don't feel loved.

[brunumb]

[Replying to brunumb in post #60]

No. What we have are people claiming to speak and write for God and using that to wield their authority over others. God isn't involved at all. People kill other people and use God to sanction their evil actions.

It is good to see that you do believe in some parts of the Bible or at least the parts that you want to believe are true.

I don't know how you reached that conclusion from what I wrote. There is no God, so it is hard to find anything in the Bible that reflects the truth. If there is any correspondence between what the Bible teaches and what we consider as morality, it is not necessarily the Bible that is the source. All human societies have evolved along with their sense of morality.

People also rid most of the world of slavery because of the teaching in the Bible that all men are created in the image of God. Western civilization is built on that very principle. The golden rule that many like to quote as their morality is a Biblical thought.

Christian slaveholders in the US actually used the Bible to justify slavery.

“Christianity was proslavery,” said Yolanda Pierce, the dean of the divinity school at Howard University. “So much of early American Christian identity is predicated on a proslavery theology. From the naming of the slave ships, to who sponsored some of these journeys including some churches, to the fact that so much of early American religious rhetoric is deeply intertwined . . . with slaveholding: It is proslavery.”
"Abolitionists tried to make arguments against using the Bible to justify slavery, but they were in the minority."
https://tinyurl.com/y32c2duj

In fact, the civility of the west comes from Biblical values.

Civility does not come from biblical values. Think of the societies that were invaded and destroyed by the application of so-called biblical civility or morality. There was no concern for the well-being of the people in those societies. That should be the basis for our morality.

[DavidLeon]

By topical hysteria I mean misusing current events...

I don't misuse the news.

You just did. With the Covid reference.

...to frighten or shame people into agreeing with one's ideology...

Sometimes people should be frightened or ashamed. They should fear deadly diseases and should be ashamed of the systematic coverup of sexual assault in groups they belong to.

Fear deadly diseases? If you say so. I don't fear death. Systematic coverup of sexual assault in groups they belong to? I don't know about fear it but I would agree do something about it. But that isn't exclusive to religious groups. Your own religious group aren't immune to it. (Source)

...because to use reason or sound judgment wouldn't be as effective.

I use reason and sound judgment. I am doing so right now.

Not really. You're whining on a Christian forum. Propaganda. Not even very good propaganda. Not well informed or educated. About the same as the Christians. Just the other side of the fence.

I think science is great, but that don't mean I have to subscribe to every scientific postulation put before me.

Who said that?

Who said what?

What the fundamentalist atheist with a scientific agenda seems to do is try to logically force the theist, or more precisely the faithful; the believer, into accepting the proposition that science is infallible or again, more precisely conclusive in it's ability to disprove faith.

Who's doing that?

You. Clownboat. Wilum. Dr. No Gods. Miles. brunumb. Zzyzx. Difflugia. But I have always had the impression that this forum consists primarily of sock puppets.

That is stupid. Xenophobic and myopic. Dogmatic. A sort of narcissistic behavior. That is what I object to. Vehemently.

Didn't you just get done criticizing "fundamentalist atheists" for objecting to other people's point of view?

No. I wouldn't do that. I think having one's point of view criticized is crucial to growth. What is stupid, xenophobic, myopic, dogmatic and narcissistic about it is when you insist the point of view you are criticizing inferior to your own because yours is the only real, intelligent or valid point of view. When I get that sort of response I return it.

If it weren't for those frequent jabs of illogic ideology you would be a pleasant conversationalist, soldier.

Thanks for the back-handed compliment.

I return, soldier, I return.

What am I doing that Christians do?

Pretty much everything. List everything you do in a 24 hour period or longer. A week. A month. And at the end of that period look at every item and ask yourself: does a Christian do that? Check the items off.

Let's see...

We both eat. Check
We both sleep. Check
We both look at porn. Check

You got it! Excellent, soldier. You just made my day. Atheist keep telling me to have a nice day or good day (supposedly multiple atheists on this forum but you never know) and here you have actually made my day. It isn't very often that the militant fundamentalist atheist in debate mode gets what I say before they go off crying like little girls. I'm impressed.

I had specifically referred to the typical atheist fundamentalist due to the hypocritical nature of it.

Can you post an example of a fundamentalist atheist who teaches her kids about Santa?

You know, soldier, anything you want to know from any possible opposing perspective is right there at your fingertips. I learned this when atheists kept saying I was uneducated. I can educate myself in a matter of minutes on any subject, for or against. Millions of them. The superhighway of misinformation. The world wide wasteland. Gotta take the good with the bad. Gotta filter through the roadkill and the fresh meat, soldier. Source

What was we talking about? Oh ... yuletide atheists. You know, yuletide Christians are equally nonsensical. It's pagan.

"For atheists, holiday celebrations can range from nonexistent to the full family affair. Some folks have started celebrating "Newtonmas," named in honor of English scientist Isaac Newton, who was born December 25 by the Julian calendar in use in England at the time." - CNN, the most unreliable elitist nonsensical snowflake propaganda

...you would impose your own good intentions in a tyrannical fashion because there's no room for debating your personal beliefs.

You haven't noticed that I debate?

Uh . . . [unexpected laugh] . . . . No. What we do here is in no way considered debate. I wouldn't be here if it were real debate. Real debate bores the tits right off me. No. This is posturing.

It's a riddle as to why people would go into a forum entitled "Debating Christianity" only to gripe about those who debate Christianity in that forum. Were you hoping to preach to the choir?

[unexpected laugh again] Lord no. Nothing against Christians, but I have as little to do with the choir as possible. They wisely distance themselves from me, I would think. I came here for "debate" with people like you. I enjoy it. I wish that I didn't because I have a website that responds to atheists criticism of the Bible that is coming along painfully slow. Too busy soldier . . . .

The militant fundamentalist atheists fascinate me! Even when they misbehave. The forum is dying, soldier. Have you noticed?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to brunumb in post #71]

Civility does not come from biblical values. Think of the societies that were invaded and destroyed by the application of so-called biblical civility or morality. There was no concern for the well-being of the people in those societies. That should be the basis for our morality.

So where does civility come from? What are you basing your belief that slavery is wrong? Why do you care about the well being of the people in society? What about cows do you care about the well-being of cows and pigs also? Do you know there are millions of cows and pigs that die every day just so, I and people like me can have our steaks and eat them too? Why do we as men have the right to kill these poor innocent animals just so we can eat our steak and eggs in the morning?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Tcg in post #69]

You did not express a counter-argument saying where you thought civility came from.

[DavidLeon]

[Replying to brunumb in post #71]

Civility does not come from biblical values. Think of the societies that were invaded and destroyed by the application of so-called biblical civility or morality. There was no concern for the well-being of the people in those societies. That should be the basis for our morality.

So where does civility come from? What are you basing your belief that slavery is wrong? Why do you care about the well being of the people in society? What about cows do you care about the well-being of cows and pigs also? Do you know there are millions of cows and pigs that die every day just so, I and people like me can have our steaks and eat them too? Why do we as men have the right to kill these poor innocent animals just so we can eat our steak and eggs in the morning?

I like what you're saying here but it's a tough sell to a tough crowd. Peterson argues this very effectively and I admire him a great deal, but still, it isn't an easy thing to wrap your mind around. Especially for the atheists.

The word spirit comes from the Hebrew and Greek meaning invisible active force. You can't see it but you can see it's results. The English pneumatic and pneumonia come from the Greek word for spirit, pneuma. Wind, breath, mental inclination. So, I believe that spirituality is the attempt to become aware of the subtle forces and influences that make us who we are. These include pretty much everything. Environment, genetics, art, music, literature, tradition, culture ... everything.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #69]

You did not express a counter-argument saying where you thought civility came from.

You're right, I didn't. I revealed the absurdity of your claim.


Tcg

[DavidLeon]

[Replying to Tcg in post #69]

You did not express a counter-argument saying where you thought civility came from.

You're right, I didn't. I revealed the absurdity of your claim.

It's not really, though, is it? What makes you and I such swell guys and not . . . psycho . . . killers?

[Tcg]

It's not really, though, is it?

It's not really what?


Tcg

[DavidLeon]

It's not really, though, is it?

It's not really what?

Absurd. The psychopathic tendency irrational? There's nothing irrational about it. It's pure naked self interest. How is that irrational? Where's the pathway from rationality to an egalitarian virtue? The universe that the fundamental atheists inhabit is so intensely conditioned by mythological presuppositions that they take for granted the ethic that emerges out of that as if its just a given. A rational given.

Where do your morals come from and what happens if society removes the mythological presuppositions that Western culture is predicated upon?

[Tcg]

It's not really, though, is it?

It's not really what?

Absurd. The psychopathic tendency irrational? There's nothing irrational about it. It's pure naked self interest. How is that irrational? Where's the pathway from rationality to an egalitarian virtue? The universe that the fundamental atheists inhabit is so intensely conditioned by mythological presuppositions that they take for granted the ethic that emerges out of that as if its just a given. A rational given.

Where do your morals come from and what happens if society removes the mythological presuppositions that Western culture is predicated upon?

This question is irrelevant to the flaws in ESG's claim as is the rest of your post.


Tcg