Hate or love - which is it?

[nobspeople]

Condescension seems to be the friend of posters here - more so Christian ones I've noticed but no one is immune to the temptation.
I see 'have a great weekend', 'grace be with you', 'peace to you' and the like in a lot of closings which seems almost like a 'middle finger with a smile' as they called it when I was younger.
Is all this condescension and sly remarks said out of respect and love, or hate and contempt. Not just here, but in life in general?
Experiences in the world says that, surely, some people (Christian or otherwise) do act out of love just as some act out of hate. But Christians have a more unique ability, it seems, to act on hate and hide behind their religion claiming 'love' or 'it's because I love you'. And in the USA, it's typically protected legally.

This got me thinking:
Is it really love that motivates Christians or hate (or disdain if hate is too strong of a word for you to handle)?
We have to take the word of those whom reply to the question as reality, as there's no way to prove it on here, but do their actions and deeds speak louder than their words?

To consider:
Do actions speak louder than words and claims? If so then, how can we believe anything that's said by or of any Christian especially if their actions don't resemble their claims of love?

[Purple Knight]

An apology can go a long way into making peace with someone, even giving that person peace.

It can. I apologise to my spouse when I feel I have wronged them frankly because, and this is going to sound a little sexist, chicks tend to need that. I think there's a dynamic where women tend to think the person who wronged them believes they were right to do what they did unless they explicitly apologise.

If I feel I'm in this dynamic (whether it's a woman or not) I violate my own rule. I do try to show people that actions, not words, can make up for wrongs, but I am one person and I can't do much to change the human species.

I think apologies in modern day definitely seriously tend to be about social power, and I've come to distrust, and even despise them. Half the time people demand an apology just to get the other fellow on his back so they can kick him when he's down. If I sense someone is asking for an apology so they can make what I did worse rather than forgive it or help me make genuine amends, they're not getting one.

[Realworldjack]

Condescension seems to be the friend of posters here - more so Christian ones I've noticed but no one is immune to the temptation.
I see 'have a great weekend', 'grace be with you', 'peace to you' and the like in a lot of closings which seems almost like a 'middle finger with a smile' as they called it when I was younger.
Is all this condescension and sly remarks said out of respect and love, or hate and contempt. Not just here, but in life in general?
Experiences in the world says that, surely, some people (Christian or otherwise) do act out of love just as some act out of hate. But Christians have a more unique ability, it seems, to act on hate and hide behind their religion claiming 'love' or 'it's because I love you'. And in the USA, it's typically protected legally.

This got me thinking:
Is it really love that motivates Christians or hate (or disdain if hate is too strong of a word for you to handle)?
We have to take the word of those whom reply to the question as reality, as there's no way to prove it on here, but do their actions and deeds speak louder than their words?

To consider:
Do actions speak louder than words and claims? If so then, how can we believe anything that's said by or of any Christian especially if their actions don't resemble their claims of love?

I have really been wanting to get over here in order to join the conversation, but have been tied up on another thread for quite sometime now, dealing with almost this same exact complaint.

more so Christian ones I've noticed

Doesn't it seem strange how this always seems to work out? In other words, we all seem to believe that it is the other side who is the guilty party, while we seem to somehow be able to attempt to defend the same exact behavior, of those with whom we tend to agree with?

Is all this condescension and sly remarks said out of respect and love, or hate and contempt.

Sometimes, I believe these things would be subjective. In other words, I may perceive your remarks as being "condescending" and "sly" when you never had this intention. In fact, this occurred on the other thread, where another member, was being accused of being "condescending", and I did not take his remarks in that way at all. And guess what? It just so happens that the one being accused of being "condescending" was a Christian, while the one doing the accusing was not. The point is again, we tend to want to see the opposing side as being the guilty party for the most part.

With this being said, and pointed out, here on this site why do we even concern ourselves with such things? In other words, we have rules, and moderators here on this site, and with this being the case, we do not have to bother ourselves with the behavior of others, which allows us all to focus on the actual points being made, since we all tend to have a bias, and can be reading more into the way it is being said, instead of what is actually being said?

Allow me to share a couple of the rules of the forum here.

7. Do not post frivolous, flame bait, or inflammatory messages.

20. In general, all members are to be civil and respectful.

Therefore, if one is under the impression that another member is not abiding by these rules, then we have an avenue in which to correct this behavior. Otherwise, I believe we are all allowed to freely express ourselves, as long as we are inside the rules set forth by the site.

My question then is, why are we concerning ourselves with the behavior of others, if they are abiding by the rules? In other words, why don't we allow the rules to work, and refrain from sharing our opinion of the behavior of others?

[Purple Knight]

Doesn't it seem strange how this always seems to work out? In other words, we all seem to believe that it is the other side who is the guilty party, while we seem to somehow be able to attempt to defend the same exact behavior, of those with whom we tend to agree with?

No. If you look at my posts I blatantly took the side of the Christian, who I disagree with, because I believe they were right and I believed demanding they apologise for giving a thank was overboard and doesn't prove anything.

I've put myself through Hell trying to get rid of my biases and frankly it's destroyed my psyche. I believe I've pretty well achieved what I sought, and it shows when I'm attacked viciously by both sides, which happens 100% of the time if it's allowed.

[Realworldjack]

Doesn't it seem strange how this always seems to work out? In other words, we all seem to believe that it is the other side who is the guilty party, while we seem to somehow be able to attempt to defend the same exact behavior, of those with whom we tend to agree with?

No. If you look at my posts I blatantly took the side of the Christian, who I disagree with, because I believe they were right and I believed demanding they apologise for giving a thank was overboard and doesn't prove anything.

I've put myself through Hell trying to get rid of my biases and frankly it's destroyed my psyche. I believe I've pretty well achieved what I sought, and it shows when I'm attacked viciously by both sides, which happens 100% of the time if it's allowed.

I am sorry, but I do not know what you are talking about, because I have really only read the OP. I was not speaking in exact terms, but simply speaking in general. Therefore, I really do not mean "it always ever works out this way". Surely there have been times when we have all taken the other side, but in general, we tend to see things from the side we happen to be on. This was all I was saying, and did not intend to mean that you have never taken the opposing side.

[Purple Knight]

I am sorry, but I do not know what you are talking about, because I have really only read the OP. I was not speaking in exact terms, but simply speaking in general. Therefore, I really do not mean "it always ever works out this way". Surely there have been times when we have all taken the other side, but in general, we tend to see things from the side we happen to be on. This was all I was saying, and did not intend to mean that you have never taken the opposing side.

I don't want an apology (I mean, I can see how people would think that) just look at post 23. I thought it was unfair and said so, even though this is my side I'm saying is unfair.

[Realworldjack]

I am sorry, but I do not know what you are talking about, because I have really only read the OP. I was not speaking in exact terms, but simply speaking in general. Therefore, I really do not mean "it always ever works out this way". Surely there have been times when we have all taken the other side, but in general, we tend to see things from the side we happen to be on. This was all I was saying, and did not intend to mean that you have never taken the opposing side.

I don't want an apology (I mean, I can see how people would think that) just look at post 23. I thought it was unfair and said so, even though this is my side I'm saying is unfair.

Easy now? I really did not give you an apology, and I was certainly not giving you an apology for anything which may have been said in post #23. As I have said, I have not read anything other than the OP, and am not attempting to get into something I know little about. My post had nothing to do with any of this.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #33]

why are we concerning ourselves with the behavior of others, if they are abiding by the rules? In other words, why don't we allow the rules to work, and refrain from sharing our opinion of the behavior of others?

Other's behaviors do tend to affect others and their interactions, no matter how much one person may try to avoid it. It's also very telling of the one's personality and intent.
As far as rules go they're only as good as they're enforced.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #33]

why are we concerning ourselves with the behavior of others, if they are abiding by the rules? In other words, why don't we allow the rules to work, and refrain from sharing our opinion of the behavior of others?

Other's behaviors do tend to affect others and their interactions, no matter how much one person may try to avoid it. It's also very telling of the one's personality and intent.
As far as rules go they're only as good as they're enforced.

why are we concerning ourselves with the behavior of others, if they are abiding by the rules? In other words, why don't we allow the rules to work, and refrain from sharing our opinion of the behavior of others?

Other's behaviors do tend to affect others and their interactions, no matter how much one person may try to avoid it. It's also very telling of the one's personality and intent.
As far as rules go they're only as good as they're enforced.
[/quote]


My whole point here is, just as you have admitted yourself,

We have to take the word of those whom reply to the question as reality, as there's no way to prove it on here

Ergo, since this is indeed the case, then why waste our time attempting to discover if one's behavior is appropriate, or not? Moreover, as we have already discussed, I may take what someone else says as being a "sly remark, or condescending", when they never intended such a thing, and we all tend to view what those opposed to us have to say, with a bias. The question is, since we have rules here on this site, why not allow the rules to work, so that we all can rather attempt to discuss what has actually been said?

It's also very telling of the one's personality and intent.

You are correct, which is one of the reasons I would rather allow folks the freedom to express themselves as they wish, because it gives me a better idea of the type of person I am dealing with, while you seem to prefer they not be themselves, and present something totally different than what may actually be the case.

As far as rules go they're only as good as they're enforced.

Again, you would be correct! However, you may want to go take a look at "probation" here on this site, which actually list those who are on probation, or have been banned, along with the reasons. I have done this, and continue to do this, and you will discover there are those on both sides who are placed on probation, and, or banned, and I have yet to see where I would be in disagreement, whether the one would have been a Christian, or an unbeliever, and I can assure you that there have been a good number of Christians placed on probation, and, or banned, and in my opinion, rightly so.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #33]

why are we concerning ourselves with the behavior of others, if they are abiding by the rules? In other words, why don't we allow the rules to work, and refrain from sharing our opinion of the behavior of others?

Other's behaviors do tend to affect others and their interactions, no matter how much one person may try to avoid it. It's also very telling of the one's personality and intent.
As far as rules go they're only as good as they're enforced.

why are we concerning ourselves with the behavior of others, if they are abiding by the rules? In other words, why don't we allow the rules to work, and refrain from sharing our opinion of the behavior of others?

Other's behaviors do tend to affect others and their interactions, no matter how much one person may try to avoid it. It's also very telling of the one's personality and intent.
As far as rules go they're only as good as they're enforced.

My whole point here is, just as you have admitted yourself,

We have to take the word of those whom reply to the question as reality, as there's no way to prove it on here

Ergo, since this is indeed the case, then why waste our time attempting to discover if one's behavior is appropriate, or not? Moreover, as we have already discussed, I may take what someone else says as being a "sly remark, or condescending", when they never intended such a thing, and we all tend to view what those opposed to us have to say, with a bias. The question is, since we have rules here on this site, why not allow the rules to work, so that we all can rather attempt to discuss what has actually been said?

It's also very telling of the one's personality and intent.

You are correct, which is one of the reasons I would rather allow folks the freedom to express themselves as they wish, because it gives me a better idea of the type of person I am dealing with, while you seem to prefer they not be themselves, and present something totally different than what may actually be the case.

As far as rules go they're only as good as they're enforced.

Again, you would be correct! However, you may want to go take a look at "probation" here on this site, which actually list those who are on probation, or have been banned, along with the reasons. I have done this, and continue to do this, and you will discover there are those on both sides who are placed on probation, and, or banned, and I have yet to see where I would be in disagreement, whether the one would have been a Christian, or an unbeliever, and I can assure you that there have been a good number of Christians placed on probation, and, or banned, and in my opinion, rightly so.
[/quote]

I recently checked the area you referenced. I was surprised at what I saw, though I'd be interested in seeing the % to total participators of believer to non-believer banned as that would be more telling than a list, though that's likely not very 'doable'.
I will say, initially, it was interesting reading, then got boring rather quickly