Pets in heaven

[nobspeople]

For what purpose does heaven exist?
1) Is it for peace for humanity?
2) Is it to worship God forever?
3) Is it simply a reward?

1) Sounds nice but only nice.
2) I shudder of eternally kissing the feet of someone for eternity - which seems kind of arrogant on the being being worshiped I must say. In other words it doesn't sound enjoyable past the first '5 minutes'.
3) Sounds more realistic.


Are pets allowed in heaven? For many of us, they are our family. For some of us, they're literally the only family and or friends we have. Why shouldn't they be allowed in heaven?
Surely option 2 above, pets would be 'out' as that would likely interfere with God's need to be praised for eternity.
For the other options, it sounds perfectly fine; some may even say preferable to option 2.

So are our pets allowed in to heaven?
If not, should they be?

[bjs1]

As for “demonstrating” the reality of an afterlife, there is only one logically possible way for that to happen. You have to die.

Uh, no. If the concept of the afterlife were true, one could demonstrate, or at least attempt to demonstrate, that those who have died in the past are still alive. Of course this usually results in claims regarding NDEs, OBEs, and the like. Even most of those that believe in a heaven reject these accounts as evidence of an afterlife.

In case you've forgotten, orthodox Christians also claim that Jesus' resurrection is evidence of an afterlife. You are of course wise not to take this track given that tales of a risen savior aren't evidence of such an occurrence. If Jesus were alive, certainly a God or a God-man or a son of God or whatever it was that Jesus was, could interact with the world today. Oddly, he doesn't.

This post contradicts itself. It says that reports of people returning to life after death are not evidence, but also claims that one can know if there is life after death (not including NDEs) without dying.

Both claims cannot be true. Either reports of those returning from the dead are evidence, or the only way to demonstrate life after death is to die.

[Tcg]

There will not be death. There will not be sin. There will not be the law. There will not be suffering. There will not be hunger. Human relationships and interactions will not be like what they are here on earth.

Heaven is nothing more than a fantasy land where people imagine they can eventually escape from the turmoils of life. Wishful thinking at its best. Why not include pets to make it just that little bit better.

I suppose that is the common atheist view of heaven. Which, as I said in post 2, is not the Christian view of heaven. Of course you are free to believe whatever you want. However, applying a non-Christian viewpoint to Christianity would be the definition of a strawman.

This would only be a strawman if brunumb claimed that what he described is an argument Christians make. He didn't. What he has described is how the fantasy of an afterlife functions for some believers. This is of course not an argument Christians make, if they did it would spoil the fantasy and it would no longer function as designed.


Tcg

[nobspeople]

...
So are our pets allowed in to heaven?
If not, should they be?

Would they want?

A good question. Same can be said of people I think.
I'd think a pet would want to be anywhere their person is.

[Diagoras]

The most consistent and significant thing the Bible teaches about heaven is that it will be different than earth. For the all importance of heaven in Christian theology, the NT says surprisingly little about what heaven will be like. For the most part it tells us what heaven will not be like.

There will not be death. There will not be sin. There will not be the law. There will not be suffering. There will not be hunger. Human relationships and interactions will not be like what they are here on earth.

There clearly won’t be ‘humans’ there by any reasonable definition either. No physical bodies present, at any rate. From that, it appears difficult to imagine how anything - thought, action, emotion, interaction - could happen. Even distinct ‘identity’ would be problematic. How do you ‘recognise’ another soul when neither you nor they have eyes, ears or voice?

Safe to assume that anything living or otherwise in this (real) universe doesn’t exist in heaven. That leaves... nothing.

Heaven is nothing.

[bjs1]

The most consistent and significant thing the Bible teaches about heaven is that it will be different than earth. For the all importance of heaven in Christian theology, the NT says surprisingly little about what heaven will be like. For the most part it tells us what heaven will not be like.

There will not be death. There will not be sin. There will not be the law. There will not be suffering. There will not be hunger. Human relationships and interactions will not be like what they are here on earth.

There clearly won’t be ‘humans’ there by any reasonable definition either. No physical bodies present, at any rate. From that, it appears difficult to imagine how anything - thought, action, emotion, interaction - could happen. Even distinct ‘identity’ would be problematic. How do you ‘recognise’ another soul when neither you nor they have eyes, ears or voice?

Safe to assume that anything living or otherwise in this (real) universe doesn’t exist in heaven. That leaves... nothing.

Heaven is nothing.

You will have to explain your reasoning.

If you mean that atheists believe that heaven is nothing, then very well.

You seem to suggest that there is some kind of definitional reason why physical bodies cannot exist in heaven. However you have not given any explanation or reason as to why that is so. What is the “reasonable definition” of heaven, and why does it exclude humans, physical bodies, thought, emotion, etc.?

If Christianity is true, then heaven would have to include physical bodies of some form since Jesus ascended into heaven in his physical body.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

The Bible teaches that there were animals in the Garden before the Fall, so it seems a reasonable deduction that animals will exist in heaven.

The biblically Eden is not depicted as being in heaven* but on earth.



*heaven as in the non-physical (non-carbon based) spiritual realm were God and the angels reside.

If the paradise Jesus refered to is in fact a reestablishment of Edenic conditions on the same planet as the original garden of Eden, then there will indeed be animals in "Paradise". There is no mention of God creating animals in heaven nor any biblical promise of animals or pets being rewarded with life in heaven¤. Indeed animals seem to have been created for human pleasure and companionship. Thus it seems reasonable to conclude there are no pets (or animals) in heaven.

¤ While the book of Revelation does speak of Jesus and other riding a white horse, the context indicates this is symbolise and not to be taken literally.



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[/quote]

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ANIMALS , HEAVENand ...THE EARTHLY PARSDISE

[tam]

Peace to you,

For what purpose does heaven exist?
1) Is it for peace for humanity?
2) Is it to worship God forever?
3) Is it simply a reward?

1) Sounds nice but only nice.
2) I shudder of eternally kissing the feet of someone for eternity - which seems kind of arrogant on the being being worshiped I must say. In other words it doesn't sound enjoyable past the first '5 minutes'.
3) Sounds more realistic.

For what purpose does heaven - the spiritual realm - exist? It exists because spirit beings exist. Because God (who is spirit) exists. It provides a place for spirit beings to come into (once God breathed them into existence).

Adam and Eve were brought into the spiritual realm (the Garden of Eden), and originally had access to both (the spiritual realm and the physical realm), just as we will have if we are in the Kingdom (which will be established upon the earth) and given the white robe (the new body; the spirit body), and the gift of eternal life. That covers a bigger topic than what you are asking about though, but I will just say that bjs makes a good point when he refers to animals that were brought into the Garden of Eden.

As well, animals drank water from the same rock that Israel drank from after leaving Egypt, and, as Paul said, that Rock was Christ. The water that Christ gives is the water of life. Egyptians also fully believed in a resurrection. They buried themselves in tombs, with their belongings, and also with their pets, so that they would have these things (and their pets) at their resurrection.

To your points:

1) Peace can occur in heaven and on the earth (though not on earth until after Christ returns; except for those who find their peace in Him). Though I would suggest that peace is more than just nice, especially for everyone who has been harmed (or seen loved ones harmed, killed, tormented, changed, etc) by war and/or by emotional/mental/spiritual/physical abuse. Peace is more than just external peace; peace is internal peace.

2) Worship of God can also occur in heaven and on the earth. Worship of God has occurred since the start, by people who have been alive on the earth. So us being in heaven is not necessary for worship of God to occur. (and to your responding comment to point 2, people who worship - in spirit and in truth - do so from the heart, and through Christ, because that is what is in their heart to do, out of love and awe and gratitude. It is a natural act; not a forced one)

3) Eternal life is a gift, a blessing; a reward. Being able to be with Christ (and so also God) forever, that is the blessing - regardless of 'where' that is; on the earth, in heaven, or both.

Are pets allowed in heaven? For many of us, they are our family. For some of us, they're literally the only family and or friends we have.

As far as I have understood, yes, it is possible for our pets to also receive a resurrection (though the Kingdom is upon the earth). As you say, some are members of our households, our 'furbabies', most loyal, loving, and even willing to give their lives for us. We buried our family dog last December in a pet cemetery (no cremation). I had him put down at the very end, so we were not permitted to do a burial in our yard (due to the drugs), but I found a place that did burials. I am grateful to be able to him again one day, whole and romping around and in no more pain.

Surely option 2 above, pets would be 'out' as that would likely interfere with God's need to be praised for eternity.

1 - Why do you say it is His need, rather than our need, our desire, our love and gratitude and awe and acknowledgement?

2 - Animals can certainly praise God. They are living beings; there is no reason to think that they cannot have a connection to their creator. Just because we do not see or hear or understand it, does not mean that God does not. See Psalm 150:6, because the prophet there speaks of every living, breathing thing praising God. Just something to think about.


Hope that helps.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Diagoras]

You seem to suggest that there is some kind of definitional reason why physical bodies cannot exist in heaven. However you have not given any explanation or reason as to why that is so. What is the “reasonable definition” of heaven, and why does it exclude humans, physical bodies, thought, emotion, etc.?

If Christianity is true, then heaven would have to include physical bodies of some form since Jesus ascended into heaven in his physical body.

I’m happy to explore this a little further.

For starters, we could usefully agree that biblical promises of ‘paradise on earth’ or ‘heaven on earth’ are currently unfulfilled prophecies. The idea of the planet being somehow ‘remade perfect’, with believers receiving new bodies is simply that - an idea. It doesn’t currently exist in the real world.

That’s separate from the idea of heaven being some sort of spiritual realm where God resides - somehow ‘outside’ the physical universe. There are plenty of arguments (often around how the universe began) which posit a god as somehow inhabiting both the physical and non-physical worlds.

Thirdly, there’s the much more primitive belief of heaven being simply ‘up amongst the stars’.

I can’t find any plausible reason for any physical entity to exist in a heaven under any of these scenarios. The first is discounted because it hasn’t’ occurred yet, the second due to its inherent property of being purely ‘spiritual’, and the third through simple observation.

You’ve already stated that there’s a paucity of evidence for heaven existing, so unless there’s a logically sound fourth definition that ‘allows’ physical bodies in it, I consider my claim still uncontested.

[nobspeople]

Peace to you,

For what purpose does heaven exist?
1) Is it for peace for humanity?
2) Is it to worship God forever?
3) Is it simply a reward?

1) Sounds nice but only nice.
2) I shudder of eternally kissing the feet of someone for eternity - which seems kind of arrogant on the being being worshiped I must say. In other words it doesn't sound enjoyable past the first '5 minutes'.
3) Sounds more realistic.

For what purpose does heaven - the spiritual realm - exist? It exists because spirit beings exist. Because God (who is spirit) exists. It provides a place for spirit beings to come into (once God breathed them into existence).

Adam and Eve were brought into the spiritual realm (the Garden of Eden), and originally had access to both (the spiritual realm and the physical realm), just as we will have if we are in the Kingdom (which will be established upon the earth) and given the white robe (the new body; the spirit body), and the gift of eternal life. That covers a bigger topic than what you are asking about though, but I will just say that bjs makes a good point when he refers to animals that were brought into the Garden of Eden.

As well, animals drank water from the same rock that Israel drank from after leaving Egypt, and, as Paul said, that Rock was Christ. The water that Christ gives is the water of life. Egyptians also fully believed in a resurrection. They buried themselves in tombs, with their belongings, and also with their pets, so that they would have these things (and their pets) at their resurrection.

To your points:

1) Peace can occur in heaven and on the earth (though not on earth until after Christ returns; except for those who find their peace in Him). Though I would suggest that peace is more than just nice, especially for everyone who has been harmed (or seen loved ones harmed, killed, tormented, changed, etc) by war and/or by emotional/mental/spiritual/physical abuse. Peace is more than just external peace; peace is internal peace.

2) Worship of God can also occur in heaven and on the earth. Worship of God has occurred since the start, by people who have been alive on the earth. So us being in heaven is not necessary for worship of God to occur. (and to your responding comment to point 2, people who worship - in spirit and in truth - do so from the heart, and through Christ, because that is what is in their heart to do, out of love and awe and gratitude. It is a natural act; not a forced one)

3) Eternal life is a gift, a blessing; a reward. Being able to be with Christ (and so also God) forever, that is the blessing - regardless of 'where' that is; on the earth, in heaven, or both.

Are pets allowed in heaven? For many of us, they are our family. For some of us, they're literally the only family and or friends we have.

As far as I have understood, yes, it is possible for our pets to also receive a resurrection (though the Kingdom is upon the earth). As you say, some are members of our households, our 'furbabies', most loyal, loving, and even willing to give their lives for us. We buried our family dog last December in a pet cemetery (no cremation). I had him put down at the very end, so we were not permitted to do a burial in our yard (due to the drugs), but I found a place that did burials. I am grateful to be able to him again one day, whole and romping around and in no more pain.

Surely option 2 above, pets would be 'out' as that would likely interfere with God's need to be praised for eternity.

1 - Why do you say it is His need, rather than our need, our desire, our love and gratitude and awe and acknowledgement?

2 - Animals can certainly praise God. They are living beings; there is no reason to think that they cannot have a connection to their creator. Just because we do not see or hear or understand it, does not mean that God does not. See Psalm 150:6, because the prophet there speaks of every living, breathing thing praising God. Just something to think about.


Hope that helps.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I know a lot of people. A LOT. And I know quite a few Christians. You are the only Christian (believer, disciple follower, whatever term you'd like to use here) that has ever told me YES, pet can get in to heaven. Frankly, I'm surprised, but glad, to hear it.

[bjs1]

[Replying to Diagoras in post #19]

The insistence that heaven as the “realm where God resides… outside the universe” must be purely spiritual, not allowing a body of any kind, seams arbitrary and unjustified.

Again, the Christian scripture and tradition holds that our Lord entered “heaven” in his resurrected body. This suggests that, at least from a Christian standpoint, the realm where God resides does not have to be purely spiritual.

Is there some logical reason that the realm where God resides must be purely spiritual that you have not mentioned yet?