Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

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nobspeople
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Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Recently someone said, when discussing knowledge, "It would have been much easier, less painful, to know by listening to God and by letting him explain it." Outside of God never explaining much of anything, it got my mind wondering if faith, itself, equates to (at least partial) lack of knowledge or the need to understand more.

A few things people don't know but accept by faith:
how God came to be
what God is
how God forgives
what lies beyond the reached of our universe
how God created all things - even things we don't know about yet
how can all of the earth save for one family be guilty enough to drown in a flood (even babies that were just being born - as it's a good assumptions that this was happening without the bible specifying)
why animals need to suffer for what people did and be drowned in the flood

The list can continue but this one is what I want to discuss:
Why did God not want Adam and Eve to eat from the knowledge of good and evil?
Christians say God doesn't want robots, but when Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they weren't acting like robots, but pure individuals. Yet, they (the story goes) condemned mankind for wanting to know the knowledge the tree held.
People could counter by saying they simple wanted to disobey God - they would have eaten from any tree - but because the bible points to this particular tree and its title or name, I don't believe it was simple rebellion.


God doesn't seem to want us to know more as outlined by this story of the tree, but he does want faith. So it seems, at least in part, God doesn't want us to know certain things and rely almost strictly on faith in him.
If that doesn't sound like robots..... :shock:

So what did that tree hold, exactly, that God didn't want them to know?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

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Post by 1213 »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:30 am
why animals need to suffer for what people did and be drowned in the flood
Bible tells all flesh was corrupted and had become violent, also animals, which is why they were destroyed.

The earth was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. God saw the earth, and saw that it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before me, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen. 6:11-13
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:30 am…Why did God not want Adam and Eve to eat from the knowledge of good and evil?
God told that people will die by death, if they eat from the tree. I believe that is why God didn’t want people to eat from it.

It was only Satan who told they would get knowledge from it, not God. I don’t think the tree itself gave any knowledge. And I believe God would have told them everything they would have wanted to know, if they would have asked.

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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

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Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]
Bible tells all flesh was corrupted and had become violent, also animals, which is why they were destroyed.
Bible or not that idea, to me, is beyond insane. I see nothing in that quote that says any animal was corrupt. That is nothing but collateral damage.
God told that people will die by death, if they eat from the tree. I believe that is why God didn’t want people to eat from it.
Seems odd that it was paradise but they would still die doesn't it? I mean, wasn't that why God put them there - to be with him forever? And wasn't the punishment for eating of it death?
It was only Satan who told they would get knowledge from it, not God.
Was it not the tree of knowledge? Were they so incredibly stupid and naïve that they needed to be told something to understand it?
I thought people were made not to be robots and use their brains and think, not follow blindly.
And I believe God would have told them everything they would have wanted to know, if they would have asked.
Perhaps, though I saw nothing in the text that would lead anyone to believe that. But if their eyes weren't opened until after eating the fruit, they had nothing to think to ask for. Additionally, they were told to eat from any tree BUT that one. Surely God would have know, like all parents know (to use the best comparison possible) that telling a child not to do something only increases their curiosity to do it.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

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Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:30 am Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?
No. One can have faith and still seek knowledge. Having faith is just the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence. If they had evidence then faith would be pointless.


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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

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Post by nobspeople »

Miles wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:56 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:30 am Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?
No. One can have faith and still seek knowledge. Having faith is just the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence. If they had evidence then faith would be pointless.


.
So you can do or have both, but, by having faith, you don't necessarily need or want to seek out more knowledge? Likewise, having a vast amount of knowledge may incline you not to seek out any faith?
But is is a one-for-one? In other words, is one more likely to seek out faith if they have a lot of knowledge or is one with faith less likely to seek out more knowledge?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

Post #6

Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:03 pm
So you can do or have both, but, by having faith, you don't necessarily need or want to seek out more knowledge?
Concerning the object of the faith? Depends on the person.
Likewise, having a vast amount of knowledge may incline you not to seek out any faith?
Perhaps, perhaps not.
But is is a one-for-one? In other words, is one more likely to seek out faith if they have a lot of knowledge or is one with faith less likely to seek out more knowledge?
Depends on the person. In main, I see no necessary correlation between the two.


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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

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Post by Difflugia »

1213 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:39 pmI don’t think the tree itself gave any knowledge.
God seemed to think that it did:
And Yahweh God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, eat, and live for ever, Yahweh God therefore sent him out from the garden of Eden to till the ground whence he was taken.
Or is this one of those "the ghost wasn't really Samuel" things?

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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

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Post by 1213 »

Difflugia wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:40 pm
1213 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:39 pmI don’t think the tree itself gave any knowledge.
God seemed to think that it did:
And Yahweh God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, eat, and live for ever, Yahweh God therefore sent him out from the garden of Eden to till the ground whence he was taken.
That is only your interpretation, not what is actually said.

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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

Post #9

Post by 1213 »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm …Seems odd that it was paradise but they would still die doesn't it?
I don’t think there is any Biblical reason to believe they would have died, if they would have remained in the Paradise.
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm… Was it not the tree of knowledge? Were they so incredibly stupid and naïve that they needed to be told something to understand it?
Knowledge and understanding are not the same. I think they could have understood many things, but they were not all knowing and if person doesn’t know all things, it may be difficult to understand something correctly. I don’t think it makes person stupid. All though, it is quite stupid not to ask more, before making decision, if you don’t know enough what it all means.
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm… But if their eyes weren't opened until after eating the fruit, they had nothing to think to ask for. Additionally, they were told to eat from any tree BUT that one.
They knew enough to make better choices. But, after they had done the mistake and rejected God, they understood better what it means.
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm…Surely God would have know, like all parents know (to use the best comparison possible) that telling a child not to do something only increases their curiosity to do it.
I don’t think there is any good reason to think that all children are like that. For example, I think, in that case many would have asked from God more about the matters. And could have avoided the same result.

But, I don’t think it really matters in this. It only led to this lesson and those who become righteous, have opportunity to go back to life. And other have to settle to only this short time. I think it is still great gift to have this, even if it doesn’t last forever.

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Re: Does having faith mean not seeking knowledge?

Post #10

Post by nobspeople »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:11 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm …Seems odd that it was paradise but they would still die doesn't it?
I don’t think there is any Biblical reason to believe they would have died, if they would have remained in the Paradise.
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm… Was it not the tree of knowledge? Were they so incredibly stupid and naïve that they needed to be told something to understand it?
Knowledge and understanding are not the same. I think they could have understood many things, but they were not all knowing and if person doesn’t know all things, it may be difficult to understand something correctly. I don’t think it makes person stupid. All though, it is quite stupid not to ask more, before making decision, if you don’t know enough what it all means.
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm… But if their eyes weren't opened until after eating the fruit, they had nothing to think to ask for. Additionally, they were told to eat from any tree BUT that one.
They knew enough to make better choices. But, after they had done the mistake and rejected God, they understood better what it means.
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm…Surely God would have know, like all parents know (to use the best comparison possible) that telling a child not to do something only increases their curiosity to do it.
I don’t think there is any good reason to think that all children are like that. For example, I think, in that case many would have asked from God more about the matters. And could have avoided the same result.

But, I don’t think it really matters in this. It only led to this lesson and those who become righteous, have opportunity to go back to life. And other have to settle to only this short time. I think it is still great gift to have this, even if it doesn’t last forever.
I don’t think there is any Biblical reason to believe they would have died, if they would have remained in the Paradise.
Are you referring to per-or post-fall?
Knowledge and understanding are not the same. I think they could have understood many things, but they were not all knowing and if person doesn’t know all things, it may be difficult to understand something correctly. I don’t think it makes person stupid. All though, it is quite stupid not to ask more, before making decision, if you don’t know enough what it all means.
They might have understood many things, or they might not have. From what I remember reading, they were like children with limited knowledge AND understanding. Should they have asked? Maybe. Should God have explained more instead of say "Don't do this!"? Probably, as he was the one with all knowledge and all understanding, not them.
They knew enough to make better choices.
If they were told "Don't do something" and they did it, with little to no experience, they didn't know enough to make better choices IMO. One thing is without doubt: God sure DID know enough.
I don’t think there is any good reason to think that all children are like that.
It doesn't take all children doing so to make it so.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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