Dangerous Christianity

[nobspeople]

Some churches around the country were defying COVID related safety demands (Grace community church in Sun Valley springs to mind).
Some claim Christianity is not good for the mind of young, impressionable minds
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... m-children
Some churches teach blind faith, but less faith in God and more faith in the church leaders (Jonestown, Guyana)
Many churches teach "God needs you to give me your money" (Creflo Dollar is notorious for this) even during times of unemployment, people on fixed incomes and so on.

It must be said, not all Christian churches are guilty of these types of atrocities. And YES, most any religion could fit this bill. But this isn't an 'any religion' section of the forum, now is it?
But the fact remains: a belief system that's as influential as Christianity, can, in the right (wrong?) hands become something to be feared - rallied against even.

Or is it all part of God's great plan, and we should do little to nothing about it?

[1213]

...but then you have a similar outcome if you don't serve your God.

Where do you get that idea?

In Bible, punishment comes probably, if you are for example murderer or do something that is equally wrong and evil. If earthly government would punish only in same cases, I would have no problems with it, because God’s laws are to protect the freedom of people. Communist rules are to protect the benefits of the elite.

[nobspeople]

....There are a lot of people sad about America's last four years (though, surprisingly, a lot that aren't, which is frightening IMO). But that regime is over and, hopefully things will start to change.

I don't see how you can be happy now that freedom of speech doesn’t exist really and you are basically ruled by few big companies with the help of corrupted government offices.

The current regime and its supporters have taken the freedom of speech from opposition, which is what communist regimes usually do. It wouldn’t be so sad otherwise, but US was the last free country still when Trump was the president. And Trump didn’t do anything as evil as Biden’s party/supporters have already done, even if we don’t count all the wrong things happened during the elections.

Imagine what would you have said if Trump and his supporters would have silenced Biden and democrats? You would probably have thought they are Nazis/communists?

If one supports Biden and his regime, it is like supporting Stalin or Hitler.

What would you call the crusaders that killed in God's name through history? Those that absorbed other cultures and religions to become 'Christian'?

I think it is always wrong when people murder others.

Politicians (no matter the party) aren't in touch with most of the people they say they represent, be it on purpose or because there is such a wide swath of people to represent, making it difficult to please everyone. That said, donny was only interested in how he and a few of his children was seen. His actions showed little interest in the vast majority of people's lives that he swore to protect and uphold. He wasn't even smart enough to lie about things and hide it at all (or he wasn't smart enough to care). It's amazing that man can function in society. But, without his 'yes men', maybe he can't?

All that said, are you saying those Christians (by their definition) that killed in God's name were wrong?
If so, would that also apply to any religious organization that forced people to follow their ways?
https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/m ... -the-sword

How do you justify God allowing this to happen in his name?

[Tcg]

... I can understand it is happy day for every communist.

I'm not a communist nor am I a conspiracy theorist. I am quite happy though.


Tcg

[Tcg]

In Bible, punishment comes probably, if you are for example murderer or do something that is equally wrong and evil.

King David committed adultery and then had the adulteress' husband murdered. He was a "man after God's own heart." It is the fabled God of the Israelites that favors the elite and ignores their crimes.


Tcg

[1213]

...King David committed adultery and then had the adulteress' husband murdered. He was a "man after God's own heart." It is the fabled God of the Israelites that favors the elite and ignores their crimes.
...

Yes, David did wrong thing. But, what makes him special is that he understood he had done wrongly and regretted it.

[brunumb]

...King David committed adultery and then had the adulteress' husband murdered. He was a "man after God's own heart." It is the fabled God of the Israelites that favors the elite and ignores their crimes.
...

Yes, David did wrong thing. But, what makes him special is that he understood he had done wrongly and regretted it.

Ah, yes, just like so many good Christian leaders when caught in flagrante delicto. They are special too.

[Difflugia]

King David committed adultery and then had the adulteress' husband murdered. He was a "man after God's own heart." It is the fabled God of the Israelites that favors the elite and ignores their crimes.

I find the overall story of David (starting in 1 Samuel 16) to be one of the most fun in the Bible to read. The combination of stories in which David is alternating hero and antihero, coupled with the narrator's attempts to provide alibis for his worst conduct has convinced me that many of the David stories were actually Canaanite stories in which David was an allegory for the barbarous Israelites living in the hills. The other stories are a sort of retconning of David's usurpation of Saul's throne into a meek farm boy having greatness thrust upon him.

The first nine chapters (16-24) of the story establish David as having been morally upright since his youth and paints his relationship with Saul as that of a godly, pious, and well-meaning protégé that is nonetheless wronged at every turn by Saul. Saul's children, Michal and Jonathan, were both completely enraptured by David and loved him. Note that Jonathan, Saul's heir to the throne, loves David more than he does his own father. This is the author setting up for us that David truly deserves the throne, while Saul is such a wretched king (and person) that even his children find his actions abhorrent.

In chapter 25, though, the tone abruptly changes. From David the upright and embattled, we now go to David the brigand and I suspect that this is the first of the earlier Canaanite stories. It ultimately became part of Israel's cultural identity and later redactors tried to rehabilitate it, but there's only so much one can massage when it's David the mafioso shaking down some guy in the sticks for protection money. Corresponding verses from chapter 25 are in parentheses:

• Narrator: A wealthy, but awful guy named Nabal had a smart and beautiful wife named Abigail. (2-3)
• David to his guys: "Youse guys go see if Nabal wants to buy some 'insurance.'" (4-8)
• David's guys to Nabal: "Those are some really nice sheep you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to them. How about a donation?" (9)
• Nabal: "My employees earn their paychecks. Get a job, losers." (10-11)
• David's guys: "He insulted you, boss! Right in front of everybody!" (12)
• David "Everybody packing? Good. Let's go have a friendly chat with Mr. Nabal." (13)
• Nabal's shepherds: "Listen, Abigail, a gangster just tried to shake Nabal down, but your husband told him off. There really are a lot of guys, they're not asking for much, and we still have to work with those guys out there. We tried to talk some practical sense into Nabal, but he's going to get himself killed, and us with him. Can you do something?" (14-17)
• Abigail: "Okay. You go ahead and I'll find what I can to bribe them with." (18-20)
• David: "Look, I didn't kill those guyses or steal even a single goat and what thanks do I get? None. No respect. I'll kill them all, see if I don't!" (21-22)
• Abigail: "Oh, sir, don't kill us, I beg you! My husband's an idiot! We're at your mercy! Here, I brought as much stuff as I can carry for you and your fine companions. It's yours. All of it. Anyone can see that you're the biggest gang around. Like I said, my husband's an idiot and I'd rather you not kill him, but if he has an 'accident' anyway, please remember that I brought you all this stuff, um, Handsome? Can I call you that?" (23-31)
• David: "Thanks, Doll. At least somebody around here knows who's who and what's what. By the way, you know we were about to kill everyone, right? Well, not the girls, but everyone else. I won't now, though, because I like you and we're friends now." (32-35)
• Narrator: Nabal didn't know any of this and threw a big party like a big show-off that thought he deserved all of his own stuff. He was a no-good drunk, too. (36)
• Abigail: "Remember those mobsters? I paid them off so they wouldn't kill us. Or me, at least." (37a)
• Nabal: "You what?" (37b)
• Narrator: Nabal died. David had nothing to do with it. He probably wasn't even in the same state. You can ask anybody here. (38)
• David: "Is that guy dead yet? He is? Good. Not that I had anything to do with it, right guys? I mean, it would totally have been fine for me to have him killed because he was a disrespectful jerk, but I didn't and neither did any of you. His wife was a sweetheart, though. Go get her for me." (39)
• David's guys: "David says you're his now. Come on." (40)
• Abigail: "Of course! Thank you for not killing me! Not that you had anything to do with Nabal's 'accident,' but thank you!" (41)
• Narrator: So David married Abigail because he loved her so much. And some other girl he picked up along the way. He loved them both so much. (42-43)

That's not the only story like that. In the "good David" stories before chapter 25, he slaughtered Israel's enemies, the Philistines, left and right. In chapter 27, though, he worked for them. Of course, being David, he double-crossed them by raiding border towns and slaughtering everyone so they couldn't tell anyone who did it. He told the king that he'd been raiding Israelite towns. But then again, the king seemed to know that the local Israelites hated David, like, a lot. Between the excuses and likely slander, it's kind of tough to tell what really went on. No matter how it shakes out, though, David ends up being kind of an amoral jerk.

Once you start reading like that, a bunch of odd details start coming together and making a bit of sense. The whole "Michal loved David and married him" thing makes a bit more sense after Saul's death, when David takes Michal from a different husband against her will. It's not quite so despicable if it turns out that they actually had been married when they were kids, so David was just getting his first wife back. At that point, David may or may not have been involved in the deaths of Saul and Jonathan ("It was the Philistines! I was nowhere near there! Ask anybody!") and had claimed the throne. That story has to be one of the dodgiest stories in the Bible and that's saying something. David, who obviously had nothing to do with Saul's death, was visited by a guy from Saul's army, but who was an Amalekite. The guy said that he mercy-killed Saul, who had impaled himself on his spear (though the Bible told us a few verses ago that Saul finished himself off with his sword) and took Saul's crown. David then had the guy (conveniently the only witness to Saul's death) killed on the spot. The crown then fell onto David's head, apparently, and since he otherwise had no legitimate claim to the throne, he told Saul's old general, Abner, and the legitimate heir, Ishbaal, that if they sent Michal to him, he wouldn't kill them. Remember, this is Princess Michal, Ishbaal's half-sister, but Abner and Ishbaal fall all over themselves to send Michal to David. Michal's sad husband follows them until Abner tells him to go back home. David marries Michal and within two chapters, both Ishbaal and Abner were dead. David had nothing to do with it. Ask anybody.

[Tcg]

...King David committed adultery and then had the adulteress' husband murdered. He was a "man after God's own heart." It is the fabled God of the Israelites that favors the elite and ignores their crimes.
...

Yes, David did wrong thing. But, what makes him special is that he understood he had done wrongly and regretted it.

Whether this is true of not, it doesn't change the fact the your following claim isn't inaccurate:

In Bible, punishment comes probably, if you are for example murderer or do something that is equally wrong and evil.

David quite literally got away with murder... and cowardice, coveting his neighbor's wife, adultery...


Tcg

[1213]

...
David quite literally got away with murder... and cowardice, coveting his neighbor's wife, adultery...

Maybe I don’t remember it well, but, by what I remember, he got punished. But, I think punishment is not necessary always, if person truly regrets and is sorry, I think forgiveness is and should be possible, if person truly regrets.

[nobspeople]

...
David quite literally got away with murder... and cowardice, coveting his neighbor's wife, adultery...

Maybe I don’t remember it well, but, by what I remember, he got punished. But, I think punishment is not necessary always, if person truly regrets and is sorry, I think forgiveness is and should be possible, if person truly regrets.

It seems, if I remember right, David found favor with God. I think many people have issues with that, rather or not he asked for forgiveness. This is, as some claim, a problem with Christianity: you can do just about ANYTHING and, if you're sorry for it later, you get forgiven AND passage to heaven when there are others that try to believe, but can't, and (according to some) don't get in to heaven.
While we can't legitimately attribute human concepts like love, justice, etc on to a supreme being like God, but it doesn't sound fair. I suppose that's why one has to rely on faith, but that's not something all of us can use legitimately.