Eternal Hell: Yes or No

[nobspeople]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

[JehovahsWitness]

I thoughts everyone knew Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in hell. In fact back in the day we uses to be called "no hellers" by our opposers as we stood out against the established churches on this issue long before it hellfire became a metaphor for separation from God.

Biblically when people die they return to the same condition they were in before they were conceived, ie they cease to exist. You cannot suffer and mental, emotional or physical angiush or agony if you do not exist.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLE "HELL", THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED

[tam]

Peace to you!

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - does not exist.

The word being rendered as "hell" is translated from at least three other (greek or hebrew) words.


"Hell" translated from "Sheol" or "Hades" refers to the world of the dead. Where the dead go to await the (second) resurrection. It is not a place of eternal torment; there is no concept of such a thing in the OT. (nor in the NT except for misunderstandings).

Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering. It was expected that the dead - great and small; good and bad - went there when they died, to await the resurrection of the dead (the second resurrection). For the most part, that was the resurrection that most of Israel was looking forward to (before Christ offered something more to those in Him). See John 11:24 and Rev 20:12 and Rev 20: 13, where Hades gives up the dead IN it.


"Hell" translated from "Gehenna" is a reference to destruction (by fire). This then would be equivalent to the lake of fire (meaning the second and eternal death) from Revelation. And we can KNOW that this lake of fire is not "Hades" (or Sheol, the world of the dead) - because Hades is cast into the lake of fire as well, and destroyed.


("Hell" as "Tartarus", also referred to as a pit of dense darkness, is the holding place for some sinful spirit beings who have been bound there until the Judgment.)

From: viewtopic.php?p=970644#p970644

If you do, who goes there?

All (except those in Christ) go to the world of the dead (Sheol/Hades) upon their death, to await the second resurrection and Judgment. See Rev 20:11-15. The dead in Christ go 'under the altar' (Rev 6:9-11) to await the first resurrection (this occurs at the start of the thousand years, when Christ returns, see Rev 20:4-6).

Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

Not that I know of (though I could simply be unaware), but since the world of the dead is not a place of eternal and/or conscious torment, this is not an issue.

What brings you to that conclusion?

That hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment?

In no particular order:

1 - the translations are in error and do not take into consideration the various meanings of the words. This is a result of the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) as well as the false teachers who created a false doctrine. A doctrine that is not based upon what is written (or the meaning of words), that is not based upon love or upon Truth, and that fails to take into consideration the fact that Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering, that the dead know nothing, feel nothing (see Ecclesiastes 9), and that everyone went there, including Israel, great and small alike.

2 - Love. God is love. Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - is not from love; and it is unnecessary. It is also absurd to think that some people will be living (well-balanced and happy lives) eternally alongside other people who are suffering for eternity. And does no one take into consideration the negative energy that would come from such a thing? What effects that would have on everything else in creation, in existence?

3 - THIS is the choice that is set before us: "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live." Deut 30:19

Life or death. Not life or eternal existence in torment.

4 - My Lord (Christ Jaheshua) does not teach it. Not even in what is written (though some misinterpret the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man to make it sound as though 'eternal torment' is being taught, which is impossible since the rich man is in Hades, which is emptied out at the Judgment, and then Hades itself is thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed). And since Sheol was never taught to be a place of eternal conscious torment (much less a place of eternal conscious torment in fire), wouldn't someone have questioned Christ on this new teaching, if indeed it had been something He had taught?





I am going to go find some links and post them here as well, since there have been many discussions on this topic (as you know).


Additional links:

viewtopic.php?p=1019280#p1019280 <- This link is actually to a list of most of my responses in Checkpoint's thread titled "God's truth about hell")




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[nobspeople]

Peace to you!

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - does not exist.

The word being rendered as "hell" is translated from at least three other (greek or hebrew) words.


"Hell" translated from "Sheol" or "Hades" refers to the world of the dead. Where the dead go to await the (second) resurrection. It is not a place of eternal torment; there is no concept of such a thing in the OT. (nor in the NT except for misunderstandings).

Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering. It was expected that the dead - great and small; good and bad - went there when they died, to await the resurrection of the dead (the second resurrection). For the most part, that was the resurrection that most of Israel was looking forward to (before Christ offered something more to those in Him). See John 11:24 and Rev 20:12 and Rev 20: 13, where Hades gives up the dead IN it.


"Hell" translated from "Gehenna" is a reference to destruction (by fire). This then would be equivalent to the lake of fire (meaning the second and eternal death) from Revelation. And we can KNOW that this lake of fire is not "Hades" (or Sheol, the world of the dead) - because Hades is cast into the lake of fire as well, and destroyed.


("Hell" as "Tartarus", also referred to as a pit of dense darkness, is the holding place for some sinful spirit beings who have been bound there until the Judgment.)

From: viewtopic.php?p=970644#p970644

If you do, who goes there?

All (except those in Christ) go to the world of the dead (Sheol/Hades) upon their death, to await the second resurrection and Judgment. See Rev 20:11-15. The dead in Christ go 'under the altar' (Rev 6:9-11) to await the first resurrection (this occurs at the start of the thousand years, when Christ returns, see Rev 20:4-6).

Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

Not that I know of (though I could simply be unaware), but since the world of the dead is not a place of eternal and/or conscious torment, this is not an issue.

What brings you to that conclusion?

That hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment?

In no particular order:

1 - the translations are in error and do not take into consideration the various meanings of the words. This is a result of the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) as well as the false teachers who created a false doctrine. A doctrine that is not based upon what is written (or the meaning of words), that is not based upon love or upon Truth, and that fails to take into consideration the fact that Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering, that the dead know nothing, feel nothing (see Ecclesiastes 9), and that everyone went there, including Israel, great and small alike.

2 - Love. God is love. Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - is not from love; and it is unnecessary. It is also absurd to think that some people will be living (well-balanced and happy lives) eternally alongside other people who are suffering for eternity. And does no one take into consideration the negative energy that would come from such a thing? What effects that would have on everything else in creation, in existence?

3 - THIS is the choice that is set before us: "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live." Deut 30:19

Life or death. Not life or eternal existence in torment.

4 - My Lord (Christ Jaheshua) does not teach it. Not even in what is written (though some misinterpret the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man to make it sound as though 'eternal torment' is being taught, which is impossible since the rich man is in Hades, which is emptied out at the Judgment, and then Hades itself is thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed). And since Sheol was never taught to be a place of eternal conscious torment (much less a place of eternal conscious torment in fire), wouldn't someone have questioned Christ on this new teaching, if indeed it had been something He had taught?





I am going to go find some links and post them here as well, since there have been many discussions on this topic (as you know).


Additional links:

viewtopic.php?p=1019280#p1019280 <- This link is actually to a list of most of my responses in Checkpoint's thread titled "God's truth about hell")




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Maybe I missed it above, but what happens to those after the 2nd resurrection?
Are you asserting there is NO punishment for those that don't accept Christ? Or is it that not being in Heaven 'punishment enough'?

Likewise, what motivates people to accept Christ if there is no real punishment to speak of (assuming there's not, of course)?

[1213]

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

I believe there is eternal hell (Gehenna), which is a fire lake that burns forever. I don’t think anyone lives there eternally, because according to the Bible, soul and body are destroyed there.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having your two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:43

…The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

[nobspeople]

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

I believe there is eternal hell (Gehenna), which is a fire lake that burns forever. I don’t think anyone lives there eternally, because according to the Bible, soul and body are destroyed there.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having your two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:43

…The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

What's the purpose of this, IYO? Punishment?
If not, what is its purpose?

[tam]

Peace to you!

Peace to you!

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - does not exist.

The word being rendered as "hell" is translated from at least three other (greek or hebrew) words.


"Hell" translated from "Sheol" or "Hades" refers to the world of the dead. Where the dead go to await the (second) resurrection. It is not a place of eternal torment; there is no concept of such a thing in the OT. (nor in the NT except for misunderstandings).

Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering. It was expected that the dead - great and small; good and bad - went there when they died, to await the resurrection of the dead (the second resurrection). For the most part, that was the resurrection that most of Israel was looking forward to (before Christ offered something more to those in Him). See John 11:24 and Rev 20:12 and Rev 20: 13, where Hades gives up the dead IN it.


"Hell" translated from "Gehenna" is a reference to destruction (by fire). This then would be equivalent to the lake of fire (meaning the second and eternal death) from Revelation. And we can KNOW that this lake of fire is not "Hades" (or Sheol, the world of the dead) - because Hades is cast into the lake of fire as well, and destroyed.


("Hell" as "Tartarus", also referred to as a pit of dense darkness, is the holding place for some sinful spirit beings who have been bound there until the Judgment.)

From: viewtopic.php?p=970644#p970644

If you do, who goes there?

All (except those in Christ) go to the world of the dead (Sheol/Hades) upon their death, to await the second resurrection and Judgment. See Rev 20:11-15. The dead in Christ go 'under the altar' (Rev 6:9-11) to await the first resurrection (this occurs at the start of the thousand years, when Christ returns, see Rev 20:4-6).

Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

Not that I know of (though I could simply be unaware), but since the world of the dead is not a place of eternal and/or conscious torment, this is not an issue.

What brings you to that conclusion?

That hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment?

In no particular order:

1 - the translations are in error and do not take into consideration the various meanings of the words. This is a result of the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) as well as the false teachers who created a false doctrine. A doctrine that is not based upon what is written (or the meaning of words), that is not based upon love or upon Truth, and that fails to take into consideration the fact that Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering, that the dead know nothing, feel nothing (see Ecclesiastes 9), and that everyone went there, including Israel, great and small alike.

2 - Love. God is love. Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - is not from love; and it is unnecessary. It is also absurd to think that some people will be living (well-balanced and happy lives) eternally alongside other people who are suffering for eternity. And does no one take into consideration the negative energy that would come from such a thing? What effects that would have on everything else in creation, in existence?

3 - THIS is the choice that is set before us: "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live." Deut 30:19

Life or death. Not life or eternal existence in torment.

4 - My Lord (Christ Jaheshua) does not teach it. Not even in what is written (though some misinterpret the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man to make it sound as though 'eternal torment' is being taught, which is impossible since the rich man is in Hades, which is emptied out at the Judgment, and then Hades itself is thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed). And since Sheol was never taught to be a place of eternal conscious torment (much less a place of eternal conscious torment in fire), wouldn't someone have questioned Christ on this new teaching, if indeed it had been something He had taught?





I am going to go find some links and post them here as well, since there have been many discussions on this topic (as you know).


Additional links:

viewtopic.php?p=1019280#p1019280 <- This link is actually to a list of most of my responses in Checkpoint's thread titled "God's truth about hell")




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Maybe I missed it above, but what happens to those after the 2nd resurrection?

At the second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead) some are resurrected to LIFE, and some are resurrected to Judgment and the second death.

(These ones at the second resurrection are non-Christians; since Christians were resurrected and/or "caught up and changed" at the first resurrection.)

Are you asserting there is NO punishment for those that don't accept Christ? Or is it that not being in Heaven 'punishment enough'?

For simply being a non-believer, you mean? No, there is no punishment for that. Keeping in mind that eternal life is a GIFT.

There are blessings for those who are in Christ (called and chosen/anointed) - their sins are covered; they will reign in the Kingdom with Christ as king-priests for a thousand years; there is no judgment for them; they have eternal life.

Everyone else is judged (or shown mercy) based upon their deeds. Christ did say that whatever one does for even a least one of His brothers, one does (even unknowingly) for Him (and some do by NATURE the requirements of the law - which is love; see Romans 2). So these ones may also have their names written in the Lamb's book of life (and so also have their sins covered over), and be invited into the Kingdom as subjects of the Kingdom. While others will receive judgment and the second (eternal) death, according to their deeds as recorded.

Likewise, what motivates people to accept Christ if there is no real punishment to speak of (assuming there's not, of course)?

Speaking for myself:

Faith. Truth. Love. Love of and desire to know God and His Truth. Gratitude. Love again.

Do you accept someone only because there might be punishment if you do not accept them? That does not sound like it would be from love, does it?

“If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."


Love never fails.


Not fear. Not self-preservation. Love.

My Lord gave His life for life... not once, but twice. Once, to bring creation into existence (the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world) and again, so that we may have life, even eternal life. That is who my Lord IS. He also healed people while He was here in the flesh, at the expense of His own flesh (carrying those sins and illnesses in His own flesh). He does these things (and more) out of love, for His Father and for us. And the love between Him and His Father... that is amazing, awesome, humbling.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Paul of Tarsus]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc).

The notion of hell as a "destruction" of a person's soul rather than an eternal torment of the soul has become popular these days. Jehovah's Witnesses accept this doctrine.

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

Based on what the New Testament says, I don't see how any Christian can deny eternal torment.

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

According to Revelation 21:8, those who are cowardly, faithless, or polluted along with murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters and all liars will be cast into a lake of fire. So merely for being a sissy, you can end up in eternal hellfire.

The New Testament describes no exceptions to this fate except for the followers of Christ, of course.

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

I think many Christians cannot square a loving God with eternal hellfire, so they dispense with the hellfire. Much of this new outlook on hell is based in modern, secular sensibilities.

[nobspeople]

Peace to you!

Peace to you!

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - does not exist.

The word being rendered as "hell" is translated from at least three other (greek or hebrew) words.


"Hell" translated from "Sheol" or "Hades" refers to the world of the dead. Where the dead go to await the (second) resurrection. It is not a place of eternal torment; there is no concept of such a thing in the OT. (nor in the NT except for misunderstandings).

Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering. It was expected that the dead - great and small; good and bad - went there when they died, to await the resurrection of the dead (the second resurrection). For the most part, that was the resurrection that most of Israel was looking forward to (before Christ offered something more to those in Him). See John 11:24 and Rev 20:12 and Rev 20: 13, where Hades gives up the dead IN it.


"Hell" translated from "Gehenna" is a reference to destruction (by fire). This then would be equivalent to the lake of fire (meaning the second and eternal death) from Revelation. And we can KNOW that this lake of fire is not "Hades" (or Sheol, the world of the dead) - because Hades is cast into the lake of fire as well, and destroyed.


("Hell" as "Tartarus", also referred to as a pit of dense darkness, is the holding place for some sinful spirit beings who have been bound there until the Judgment.)

From: viewtopic.php?p=970644#p970644

If you do, who goes there?

All (except those in Christ) go to the world of the dead (Sheol/Hades) upon their death, to await the second resurrection and Judgment. See Rev 20:11-15. The dead in Christ go 'under the altar' (Rev 6:9-11) to await the first resurrection (this occurs at the start of the thousand years, when Christ returns, see Rev 20:4-6).

Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

Not that I know of (though I could simply be unaware), but since the world of the dead is not a place of eternal and/or conscious torment, this is not an issue.

What brings you to that conclusion?

That hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment?

In no particular order:

1 - the translations are in error and do not take into consideration the various meanings of the words. This is a result of the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) as well as the false teachers who created a false doctrine. A doctrine that is not based upon what is written (or the meaning of words), that is not based upon love or upon Truth, and that fails to take into consideration the fact that Job longed to go there to ESCAPE his suffering, that the dead know nothing, feel nothing (see Ecclesiastes 9), and that everyone went there, including Israel, great and small alike.

2 - Love. God is love. Hell - as a place of eternal conscious torment - is not from love; and it is unnecessary. It is also absurd to think that some people will be living (well-balanced and happy lives) eternally alongside other people who are suffering for eternity. And does no one take into consideration the negative energy that would come from such a thing? What effects that would have on everything else in creation, in existence?

3 - THIS is the choice that is set before us: "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live." Deut 30:19

Life or death. Not life or eternal existence in torment.

4 - My Lord (Christ Jaheshua) does not teach it. Not even in what is written (though some misinterpret the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man to make it sound as though 'eternal torment' is being taught, which is impossible since the rich man is in Hades, which is emptied out at the Judgment, and then Hades itself is thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed). And since Sheol was never taught to be a place of eternal conscious torment (much less a place of eternal conscious torment in fire), wouldn't someone have questioned Christ on this new teaching, if indeed it had been something He had taught?





I am going to go find some links and post them here as well, since there have been many discussions on this topic (as you know).


Additional links:

viewtopic.php?p=1019280#p1019280 <- This link is actually to a list of most of my responses in Checkpoint's thread titled "God's truth about hell")




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Maybe I missed it above, but what happens to those after the 2nd resurrection?

At the second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead) some are resurrected to LIFE, and some are resurrected to Judgment and the second death.

(These ones at the second resurrection are non-Christians; since Christians were resurrected and/or "caught up and changed" at the first resurrection.)

Are you asserting there is NO punishment for those that don't accept Christ? Or is it that not being in Heaven 'punishment enough'?

For simply being a non-believer, you mean? No, there is no punishment for that. Keeping in mind that eternal life is a GIFT.

There are blessings for those who are in Christ (called and chosen/anointed) - their sins are covered; they will reign in the Kingdom with Christ as king-priests for a thousand years; there is no judgment for them; they have eternal life.

Everyone else is judged (or shown mercy) based upon their deeds. Christ did say that whatever one does for even a least one of His brothers, one does (even unknowingly) for Him (and some do by NATURE the requirements of the law - which is love; see Romans 2). So these ones may also have their names written in the Lamb's book of life (and so also have their sins covered over), and be invited into the Kingdom as subjects of the Kingdom. While others will receive judgment and the second (eternal) death, according to their deeds as recorded.

Likewise, what motivates people to accept Christ if there is no real punishment to speak of (assuming there's not, of course)?

Speaking for myself:

Faith. Truth. Love. Love of and desire to know God and His Truth. Gratitude. Love again.

Do you accept someone only because there might be punishment if you do not accept them? That does not sound like it would be from love, does it?

“If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."


Love never fails.


Not fear. Not self-preservation. Love.

My Lord gave His life for life... not once, but twice. Once, to bring creation into existence (the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world) and again, so that we may have life, even eternal life. That is who my Lord IS. He also healed people while He was here in the flesh, at the expense of His own flesh (carrying those sins and illnesses in His own flesh). He does these things (and more) out of love, for His Father and for us. And the love between Him and His Father... that is amazing, awesome, humbling.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

This POV seems more of a logical, common sense approach which many can appreciated. Myself included.
Thanks for the feedback

[1213]

…
What's the purpose of this, IYO? Punishment?
If not, what is its purpose?

I think the purpose is to get rid of evil people.