Cursing

[nobspeople]

Recently, a Netflix documentary speaks about the history of a handful of curse/swear words.
Growing up, I always noticed a distinct difference in what one group considers 'swear words' (as they called it) and what another group didn't.
Before the age of 10 I had figured out it's more about what the words means or what the word is attempting to convey than it is about the word itself (saying "Ah crap!" means the same as saying "Ah s**t!", just with different words).

I worked with a preacher who used the F word with his wife (when he was fired they cleaned out his desk and found a letter he wrote to her with included the F would multiple times is how we knew) and he didn't seem to have any issues with it (though it must be said I never heard him say it while angry at work).

Another church member I grew up with had a certain word she didn't think was 'bad' that she would say, but everyone else in her family and in the church thought it a 'bad word'.


For discussion:
How do (or should) Christians approach swear or curse words in daily life?
Are they OK? Does it depend on how they're used?
And should Christians take in to account how others around them perceive the words they use?

And please please please don't allow this thread to devolve in to the specific words and name calling.


œ Mods: I tried to make sure no rules were broken in the beginning of this thread.

[nobspeople]

Thank you for the response. Do you ever find certain words some use as vulgar/cuss words that don't fit your definition?

Words like 'crap' can be used just like s**t, but it's the meaning of context that seems to change.

I'm story I don't understand the question; I don't have my own defintion of a swear (cuss) word, so I'm pretty much going by the standard dictionary defintion. I'm happy to say I don't believe I know all swear words but I wouldn't use either if those words in any context.


JW

I could have explained it better
Let's say the word s**t is a bad word
Crap isn't
But they mean the same thing
Is it OK to say 'Ah crap!' but not 'Ah s**t!"?
Or are both OK?
Or neither OK?

.... but I wouldn't use either if those words in any context. I don't believe it's ok (acceptable) to use either word.



JW

Fair enough
What do you say when, let's say, you hit your hand with a hammer? Or accidentally get a papercut?

[JehovahsWitness]

Thank you for the response. Do you ever find certain words some use as vulgar/cuss words that don't fit your definition?

Words like 'crap' can be used just like s**t, but it's the meaning of context that seems to change.

I'm story I don't understand the question; I don't have my own defintion of a swear (cuss) word, so I'm pretty much going by the standard dictionary defintion. I'm happy to say I don't believe I know all swear words but I wouldn't use either if those words in any context.


JW

I could have explained it better
Let's say the word s**t is a bad word
Crap isn't
But they mean the same thing
Is it OK to say 'Ah crap!' but not 'Ah s**t!"?
Or are both OK?
Or neither OK?

.... but I wouldn't use either if those words in any context. I don't believe it's ok (acceptable) to use either word.



JW

Fair enough
What do you say when, let's say, you hit your hand with a hammer? Or accidentally get a papercut?

LOL... I say ....


AHHHoowww!

JW

[nobspeople]

Thank you for the response. Do you ever find certain words some use as vulgar/cuss words that don't fit your definition?

Words like 'crap' can be used just like s**t, but it's the meaning of context that seems to change.

I'm story I don't understand the question; I don't have my own defintion of a swear (cuss) word, so I'm pretty much going by the standard dictionary defintion. I'm happy to say I don't believe I know all swear words but I wouldn't use either if those words in any context.


JW

I could have explained it better
Let's say the word s**t is a bad word
Crap isn't
But they mean the same thing
Is it OK to say 'Ah crap!' but not 'Ah s**t!"?
Or are both OK?
Or neither OK?

.... but I wouldn't use either if those words in any context. I don't believe it's ok (acceptable) to use either word.



JW

Fair enough
What do you say when, let's say, you hit your hand with a hammer? Or accidentally get a papercut?

LOL..."AHHHoowww!

JW

Which is similar to when someone says 'Ah crap that hurt!' - to announce a displeasure with the pain.
So, using different words have the same connotation.

So why is saying 'crap' and worse than saying 'AHHHoowww'?
Everyone knows saying 'crap' doesn't literally mean feces, but showing the same discomfort as 'AHHHoowww'

[John Bauer]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #6]

Thanks for the response. As I asked JW above, do you find certain words 'wrong' that others don't, or vice-versa? Or is it more the context of the word used, and not the word [itself]? I think you answered this but wanted to verify.

My answer above was essentially, "My opinion and feelings about vulgar language is not nearly as important as how my fellow believers feel about it. If they are sensitive about it, then I am too—for their sake."

What about when I am alone in my own home? I don't find any particular expression of vulgar language "wrong" (sinful). It's the intent behind the words that counts as sinful or not. I'm sensitive to certain words and can be offended by them (like someone dropping that certain word while in the presence of a lady, which I find misogynistic and dehumanizing), but I am responding to the intent behind the words more than anything else.

And, again, my biggest concern is how others around me feel. I try to be aware and mindful of others above myself. "Live together in harmony, live together in love, as though you had only one mind and one spirit between you. Never act from motives of rivalry or personal vanity, but in humility think more of each other than you do of yourselves. None of you should think only of his own affairs, but should learn to see things from other people’s point of view" (Philippians 2:3-4).

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #6]

Thanks for the response. As I asked JW above, do you find certain words 'wrong' that others don't, or vice-versa? Or is it more the context of the word used, and not the word [itself]? I think you answered this but wanted to verify.

My answer above was essentially, "My opinion and feelings about vulgar language is not nearly as important as how my fellow believers feel about it. If they are sensitive about it, then I am too—for their sake."

What about when I am alone in my own home? I don't find any particular expression of vulgar language "wrong" (sinful). It's the intent behind the words that counts as sinful or not. I'm sensitive to certain words and can be offended by them (like someone dropping that certain word while in the presence of a lady, which I find misogynistic and dehumanizing), but I am responding to the intent behind the words more than anything else.

And, again, my biggest concern is how others around me feel. I try to be aware and mindful of others above myself. "Live together in harmony, live together in love, as though you had only one mind and one spirit between you. Never act from motives of rivalry or personal vanity, but in humility think more of each other than you do of yourselves. None of you should think only of his own affairs, but should learn to see things from other people’s point of view" (Philippians 2:3-4).

While I appreciate your being aware of the feelings of others around you, at what point do you draw the line? I've always found, while you can do or say something that impacts another's feelings, rather or not a person feels a certain way is, ultimately, up to them.
So at what point do you say "Well, I tried. I gotta' live my life and if they get upset, so be it!"?

[John Bauer]

While I appreciate your being aware of the feelings of others around you, at what point do you draw the line? I've always found, while you can do or say something that impacts another's feelings, rather or not a person feels a certain way is, ultimately, up to them.
So at what point do you say "Well, I tried. I gotta' live my life and if they get upset, so be it!"?

I agree that what people choose to do or feel is ultimately up to them, but I try to be mindful of and take responsibility for the impact my words and actions have. That is where I draw the line, at my own words and actions, over which I exercise a measure of control. So, again, I avoid certain vulgar language around those who are sensitive to it—and I do it for their sake. I am not more important than them.

[nobspeople]

While I appreciate your being aware of the feelings of others around you, at what point do you draw the line? I've always found, while you can do or say something that impacts another's feelings, rather or not a person feels a certain way is, ultimately, up to them.
So at what point do you say "Well, I tried. I gotta' live my life and if they get upset, so be it!"?

I agree that what people choose to do or feel is ultimately up to them, but I try to be mindful of and take responsibility for the impact my words and actions have. That is where I draw the line, at my own words and actions, over which I exercise a measure of control. So, again, I avoid certain vulgar language around those who are sensitive to it—and I do it for their sake. I am not more important than them.

Agreed. We all tend to live within the bell curve. Once extremes are met or exceeded, we have to say 'we can only do so much'.
So, while trying to be mindful of how others react to one's words (et al), at some point there's nothing we can do with how they react.

[The Barbarian]

There are two classes of "bad words", I think. The first, and most objectionable are taking God's name in vain.

The second are words that society finds objectionable.

The former are sins. The latter are inconsiderate and often aggressive.

The "F-word" is a special category. It seems to have come from the proto Indo-European "bhau", meaning to strike or harm, from various intermediates. I'm thinking it always had a dual meaning of copulation and harming. A truly "bad word."

[nobspeople]

There are two classes of "bad words", I think. The first, and most objectionable are taking God's name in vain.

The second are words that society finds objectionable.

The former are sins. The latter are inconsiderate and often aggressive.

The "F-word" is a special category. It seems to have come from the proto Indo-European "bhau", meaning to strike or harm, from various intermediates. I'm thinking it always had a dual meaning of copulation and harming. A truly "bad word."

There's a Netflix show I watched recently speaking to the origins of several 'bad words'. One of them was the 'F' word. I don't recall them referencing your claim about the 'F' word. I don't remember exactly, but I seem to recall it has its origins based off some family royalty or the like. It was an interesting view, showing the most likely origin of each word, how it's changed over time, and where it's likely going in the future.

In regards to how objectionable a word is or isn't, it seems society always has the last say over what is bad, how bad it is, and what's not.

[Miles]

.


Re. the F-word.

From the Online Etymology Dictionary.

"**** (v.)

"to have sexual intercourse with" (transitive), until recently a difficult word to trace in usage, in part because it was omitted as taboo by the editors of the original OED when the "F" entries were compiled (1893-97). Johnson also had excluded the word, and **** wasn't in a single English language dictionary from 1795 to 1965. "The Penguin Dictionary" broke the taboo in the latter year. Houghton Mifflin followed, in 1969, with "The American Heritage Dictionary," but it also published a "Clean Green" edition without the word, to assure itself access to the public high school market.

Written form attested from at least early 16c.; OED 2nd edition cites 1503, in the form fukkit, and the earliest attested appearance of current spelling is 1535 ("Bischops ... may **** thair fill and be vnmaryit" [Sir David Lyndesay, "Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaits"]). Presumably it is a more ancient word, but one not written in the kind of texts that have survived from Old English and Middle English [September 2015: the verb appears to have been found recently in an English court manuscript from 1310]. Buck cites proper name John le **** er from 1278, but that surname could have other explanations. The word apparently is hinted at in a scurrilous 15c. poem, titled "Flen flyys," written in bastard Latin and Middle English. The relevant line reads:

Non sunt in celi

quia fuccant uuiuys of heli

"They [the monks] are not in heaven because they **** the wives of [the town of] Ely." Fuccant is pseudo-Latin, and in the original it is written in cipher. The earliest examples of the word otherwise are from Scottish, which suggests a Scandinavian origin, perhaps from a word akin to Norwegian dialectal fukka "copulate," or Swedish dialectal focka "copulate, strike, push," and fock "penis."

Another theory traces the Modern English verb to Middle English fyke, fike "move restlessly, fidget" (see fike) which also meant "dally, flirt," and probably is from a general North Sea Germanic word (compare Middle Dutch fokken, German ficken "**** ," earlier "make quick movements to and fro, flick," still earlier "itch, scratch;" the vulgar sense attested from 16c.). This would parallel in sense the vulgar Middle English term for "have sexual intercourse," swive, from Old English swifan "to move lightly over, sweep" (see swivel). But OED remarks that these "cannot be shown to be related" to the English word. Liberman has this to say:

Germanic words of similar form (f + vowel + consonant) and meaning 'copulate' are numerous. One of them is G. ficken. They often have additional senses, especially 'cheat,' but their basic meaning is 'move back and forth.' ... Most probably, **** is a borrowing from Low German and has no cognates outside Germanic.

Chronology and phonology rule out Shipley's attempt to derive it from Middle English firk "to press hard, beat." The unkillable urban legend that this word is an acronym of some sort (a fiction traceable on the internet to 1995 but probably predating that), and the "pluck yew" fable, are results of ingenious trifling (also see here). The Old English verb for "have sexual intercourse with" was hæman, from ham "dwelling, home," with a sense of "take home, co-habit." French foutre and Italian fottere seem to resemble the English word but are unrelated, descending rather from Latin futuere, which perhaps is from PIE root *bhau- "to strike," extended via a figurative use "from the sexual application of violent action" [Shipley; compare the sexual slang use of bang, etc.]."
source

.