Lots of people say Christians "Are trying to jam religion and God down our throats." Yes, I know how this is a figure of speech. But, I doubt any of these people can say how this actually happens. Nobody is forcing them to do anything about God or religion. Why the complaint?
To help non Believers in God to better understand why Christianity is good for them, here are some reasons:
1.) If you want to have a better life, obey God. Jesus says those who obey His Commands will live better and longer. Such as getting everything they need for life, and living forever.
2.) If you give yourself completely to God, you will not go to Hell.
3.) If you belong to God, you will feel better.
4.) If you become a Christian, you can even accidentally believe the wrong Theology, but as long as you state Jesus is God and He died for you, you can still go to Heaven.
5.) After you become a Christian, you will not go to Hell for not understanding The Bible, because no person alive understands The Bible. That is why every part of The Bible is argued about. After you die, then you will understand everything about it.
6.) If you become a Christian, you will always have someone important to talk to who lives you.
7.) Finally, when you are a Christian, you will probably save a lot of money on useless things. Maybe.
What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #51I neither stated nor implied that all Christians are the same.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:04 pmIf all Christians are the same, are all nonChristians the same as each other, as well?Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:19 pmOf course Christians exist. Adding the word "Real" adds no value. Yes Christians exist and I've provided an example of their actions.
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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #52Are Catholics Christians?Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:16 pmI neither stated nor implied that all Christians are the same.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:04 pmIf all Christians are the same, are all nonChristians the same as each other, as well?Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:19 pmOf course Christians exist. Adding the word "Real" adds no value. Yes Christians exist and I've provided an example of their actions.
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #53If you are suggesting they aren't, it's up to you to support such a claim. It is not my responsibility to make your argument for you.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:34 pmAre Catholics Christians?Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:16 pmI neither stated nor implied that all Christians are the same.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:04 pmIf all Christians are the same, are all nonChristians the same as each other, as well?Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:19 pmOf course Christians exist. Adding the word "Real" adds no value. Yes Christians exist and I've provided an example of their actions.
Tcg
Tcg
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #54For centuries, the Catholic Church has piled up wealth extracted from trusting people, killed dissenters, hidden it's agenda from view, placed false requirements of religion on its followers, raped little boys, changed the text of Scripture, meddled and controlled human governments, hidden it's crimes, abused the message of Christ's forgiveness of sin, conducted warfare, leaned upon its own discernments rather than upon God, and hidden its societal crimes.Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:01 pmIf you are suggesting they aren't, it's up to you to support such a claim. It is not my responsibility to make your argument for you.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:34 pmAre Catholics Christians?Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:16 pmI neither stated nor implied that all Christians are the same.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:04 pmIf all Christians are the same, are all nonChristians the same as each other, as well?Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:19 pmOf course Christians exist. Adding the word "Real" adds no value. Yes Christians exist and I've provided an example of their actions.
Tcg
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Regardless of how it may have had some saints and started hospitals, it is grossly corrupted. It is not the Body of Christ.
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #55None of this is evidence that Catholics aren't Christians.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
For centuries, the Catholic Church has piled up wealth extracted from trusting people, killed dissenters, hidden it's agenda from view, placed false requirements of religion on its followers, raped little boys, changed the text of Scripture, meddled and controlled human governments, hidden it's crimes, abused the message of Christ's forgiveness of sin, conducted warfare, leaned upon its own discernments rather than upon God, and hidden its societal crimes.
Regardless of how it may have had some saints and started hospitals, it is grossly corrupted. It is not the Body of Christ.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #56It can both be true that some Catholic boarding schools treated American Indians poorly and western individualism is rooted (in large part) in Christianity. So this isolated anecdote does not provide sufficient reason to object to the claim.Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:29 pmThat's more than a little hard to accept given the following:historia wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:11 pmAnd yet, ironically, a major reason why the society in which you live does value the individual and fosters independent thought is due to Christianity.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:23 pm
I find modern Christianity a disgusting and vile, barbaric ritualization that has no place in society that values the individual and fosters independent thought.
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... ls/584293/
Moreover, this is not a particularly controversial idea. So, if you find this "hard to believe," may I suggest recent treatments of the topic like Larry Siedentop's Inventing the Individual (2014) and Tom Holland's Dominion (2019).
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #57"Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." Matt. 7:20Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:19 pmNone of this is evidence that Catholics aren't Christians.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
For centuries, the Catholic Church has piled up wealth extracted from trusting people, killed dissenters, hidden it's agenda from view, placed false requirements of religion on its followers, raped little boys, changed the text of Scripture, meddled and controlled human governments, hidden it's crimes, abused the message of Christ's forgiveness of sin, conducted warfare, leaned upon its own discernments rather than upon God, and hidden its societal crimes.
Regardless of how it may have had some saints and started hospitals, it is grossly corrupted. It is not the Body of Christ.
Tcg
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #58Yes. Undoubtedly, Catholics use the same verse to support their rejection of other Christian denominations.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:57 pm"Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." Matt. 7:20Tcg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:19 pmNone of this is evidence that Catholics aren't Christians.Benson wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
For centuries, the Catholic Church has piled up wealth extracted from trusting people, killed dissenters, hidden it's agenda from view, placed false requirements of religion on its followers, raped little boys, changed the text of Scripture, meddled and controlled human governments, hidden it's crimes, abused the message of Christ's forgiveness of sin, conducted warfare, leaned upon its own discernments rather than upon God, and hidden its societal crimes.
Regardless of how it may have had some saints and started hospitals, it is grossly corrupted. It is not the Body of Christ.
Tcg
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #59Immaterial to my opinion of it.historia wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:11 pmAnd yet, ironically, a major reason why the society in which you live does value the individual and fosters independent thought is due to Christianity.nobspeople wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:23 pm
I find modern Christianity a disgusting and vile, barbaric ritualization that has no place in society that values the individual and fosters independent thought.
People can take almost anything and contort it to serve their purpose. Christianity isn't immune to this.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: What Exactly Is Your Problem With Christianity?
Post #60A big problem for me with Christianity, the orthodox kind, is, well, it's orthodoxy. That is, in order to accept one, or a few, aspects of its doctrine, you are obliged to accept wholesale ALL of it. This I am against. I do not think it is essential to accept every last point of Dogma.
However, I can understand the "all or nothing" mentality of many Christians, and can see even how it is logically surmisable. It all centers on whether the Bible is an absolute authority. If God is truthful, so the argument goes, then it follows that all he says is true, or else he is a liar, and in that case everything he says is therefore questionable.
I can see how people can regard that line of thought as the only genuine one. It makes logical sense. If you assume that God must be truthful in giving us knowledge. That he is a "bad god" if he lies or gives us bad information. I would posit that God need not be truthful all the time in order to be good, or that his revelation, the Bible, needs to be an airtight logical document. In the first case, God can lie or bend the truth for a number of good reasons. One of which is that he does not want us to have the whole truth for reasons of free will, or because it would overwhelm us. It may be the case, in my view, that the complete Truth is something far too difficult to accept for the masses of people than a paired down version which can be more accessible. If people knew the Absolute Truth without any mediation, then perhaps people would go insane or use it for nefarious ends. Surely we do not know the Whole Truth, so how can we even speculate as to the effects of its outcome on the masses of people? Diplomats may take it as their duty to lie to keep the peace, so why not God? The idea that lying is absolutely wrong in every case is a very specific, Kantian philosophical view that I don't think most people are even in their own lives entirely on board with.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Christian God could be both partially supernatural and partially a projection of the collective Jungian Mind. Perhaps we only see in the Christian God that which we want to see. Perhaps the Christian God is a karmic feedback loop of all the desires and dreams we projected in a former life, returning to us in the form of an absolutized Idea that seems fixed but isn't.
And thus, regarding the Bible being inerrant, we can see how it may follow that the Scriptures, having their source in this Mysterious Projection of Holiness, is simply a mirror image of our own wants and illusions and half-thoughts. Something absolutized in the mind and not so in Reality.
However, I can understand the "all or nothing" mentality of many Christians, and can see even how it is logically surmisable. It all centers on whether the Bible is an absolute authority. If God is truthful, so the argument goes, then it follows that all he says is true, or else he is a liar, and in that case everything he says is therefore questionable.
I can see how people can regard that line of thought as the only genuine one. It makes logical sense. If you assume that God must be truthful in giving us knowledge. That he is a "bad god" if he lies or gives us bad information. I would posit that God need not be truthful all the time in order to be good, or that his revelation, the Bible, needs to be an airtight logical document. In the first case, God can lie or bend the truth for a number of good reasons. One of which is that he does not want us to have the whole truth for reasons of free will, or because it would overwhelm us. It may be the case, in my view, that the complete Truth is something far too difficult to accept for the masses of people than a paired down version which can be more accessible. If people knew the Absolute Truth without any mediation, then perhaps people would go insane or use it for nefarious ends. Surely we do not know the Whole Truth, so how can we even speculate as to the effects of its outcome on the masses of people? Diplomats may take it as their duty to lie to keep the peace, so why not God? The idea that lying is absolutely wrong in every case is a very specific, Kantian philosophical view that I don't think most people are even in their own lives entirely on board with.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Christian God could be both partially supernatural and partially a projection of the collective Jungian Mind. Perhaps we only see in the Christian God that which we want to see. Perhaps the Christian God is a karmic feedback loop of all the desires and dreams we projected in a former life, returning to us in the form of an absolutized Idea that seems fixed but isn't.
And thus, regarding the Bible being inerrant, we can see how it may follow that the Scriptures, having their source in this Mysterious Projection of Holiness, is simply a mirror image of our own wants and illusions and half-thoughts. Something absolutized in the mind and not so in Reality.