Why would God do this?

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Tommy63
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Why would God do this?

Post #1

Post by Tommy63 »

It has been a long time since I have been on here. For 17 years I have tried my best to follow what the Bible has told me to do. I have not been perfect in my walk, but I have tried to do the best I can.

For the past 2 years now I have started to question my beliefs in my religion, and have started to lose my faith in what God can do. My whole life has been one failure after another. I have never been able to be happy due to judgement, gossip, lies, and greed being placed upon me. I was told by the bible that if you knock, it would be opened for you....ask, and you shall receive....that we are God's children....and God loves us. I have read these things, but have not seen them in my life, which has caused me to question the things I have read, and been told. Here are a few of the things that are heavy on my soul now.

1. I understand that God created the heavens and the earth, and that satan was expelled from heaven. I would have to assume that satan was kick out of heaven after God created the earth and put Adam and Eve there, for how could satan have fell to earth if it was not created yet? With that being said, If God is the most powerful, why would he allowed satan to fall to earth, a place he created, and placed man upon it to live in peace and harmony, with beauty all around? God also told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree. If God is everywhere, all the time, why would he have allowed satan to enter the garden of Eden, and why would he allow satan to persuade Eve to eat from the tree? If he expelled satan from heaven, could He not have expelled him from earth or smite him down? Man is now punished for something God allowed to happen. Why would God do this?

2. The story of Noah talks about God flooding the earth because of sin overwhelming earth. Since God allowed satan to fall to earth, and not protect his children from this evil by destroying satan, is this not God's fault for allowing the evil to grow? Why is man to blame for a seed that God allowed to be planted on this earth? Why would God do this?

3. Man has always been a sinner since the days of Eden. I know the Bible is written by man. I know that there were debates over which books would be put in the Bible. I know that Jesus is a part of God made into man that came to earth. So if Jesus is God himself as man, then why didn't Jesus write the bible? Why would God put trust in man, who has failed short of the glory because of his vanity, greed, lies, and temptations, why would God allow man to write the Bible? Why would God do this?

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Miles
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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #11

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:59 pm
Tommy63 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:59 am 1. ...If God is the most powerful, why would he allowed satan to fall to earth...?
Satan has been allowed to exist and tempt mankind to settle the issue of universal Sovereignty.
Several questions.

1) Exactly where does this information come from? Like chapter and verse, or wherever.

2) What is the issue of "Universal Sovereignty"? I have my suspicion, but would prefer to hear it from you to be sure.

3) Why would tempting mankind settle it?

3) What's taking so long? Isn't 5,500 years (or 13.8 billion years) enough?

Tommy63 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:59 am 2. ...Man is now punished for something God allowed to happen. Why would God do this?

Man isn't being punished, man is suffering the consequences. Why? See above.
I assume the consequences you mention are in the settling the issue of Universal Sovereignty, but why is it necessary that man suffer? Doesn't seem very nice . . . . or fair.




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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #12

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:21 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:59 pm
Tommy63 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:59 am 1. ...If God is the most powerful, why would he allowed satan to fall to earth...?
Satan has been allowed to exist and tempt mankind to settle the issue of universal Sovereignty.
Several questions.

1) Exactly where does this information come from? Like chapter and verse, or wherever.


That comes from my exercise of critical thinking skills based on my analysis of the themes presented in the entire bible. I dont need a chapter and verse that says the words "do not chop up Hilda your neighbour's wife" to intelligently interpret "thou shalt not murder".




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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:21 am
2) What is the issue of "Universal Sovereignty"?

It is the question of who has the right to rule as the supreme universal* authority.

* universal : including or covering all or a whole collectively or distributively without limit or exception[/i
Why does it take TIME to settle [the issue of Universal Sovereignty]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 75#p845975







Why does God allow evil and suffering?

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... suffering/



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What is the issue of universal Sovereignty? [Defined]
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Why has it taken so long to settle the issue of universal sovereinty?
viewtopic.php?p=1097903#p1097903

When were the edenic issues settled and what comes next?
viewtopic.php?p=1097660#p1097660

Should not a loving God have ignored the issues in order to avoid suffering?
viewtopic.php?p=908722#p908722
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SATAN , HUMAN SUFFERING and .... THE ISSUE OF UNIVERSAL SOVEREIGNTY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:42 am, edited 9 times in total.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #14

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:30 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:35 pm
Any supreme, perfect being worth's its salt wouldn't put imperfect being in charge to write his story ...

It is a presumption that he did. According to scripture God has always "been in charge" of his written word. ( 2 Tim 3:16 ; 1 Peter 1:25 )






JW
If true, all the more reason to discount him
Maybe he needed a ghost writer. Or a better editor at the very least
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #15

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:42 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:30 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:35 pm
Any supreme, perfect being worth's its salt wouldn't put imperfect being in charge to write his story ...

It is a presumption that he did. According to scripture God has always "been in charge" of his written word. ( 2 Tim 3:16 ; 1 Peter 1:25 )






JW
If true, all the more reason to discount him
Maybe he needed a ghost writer. Or a better editor at the very least
Why do you say that? I see no evidence of bad writing in scripture nor anything a good editor would have added or removed. The bible is in my opinion just perfect.





JW

The 100 best nonfiction books: No 100 – King James Bible: The Authorised Version (1611)
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... ames-bible
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #16

Post by brunumb »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:16 am
Miles wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:21 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:59 pm
Tommy63 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:59 am 1. ...If God is the most powerful, why would he allowed satan to fall to earth...?
Satan has been allowed to exist and tempt mankind to settle the issue of universal Sovereignty.
Several questions.
1) Exactly where does this information come from? Like chapter and verse, or wherever.
That comes from my exercise of critical thinking skills based on my analysis of the themes presented in the entire bible. I dont need a chapter and verse that says the words "do not chop up Hilda your neighbour's wife" to intelligently interpret "thou shalt not murder".
Exactly how does that answer the question regarding Satan being allowed to exist and tempt mankind to settle the issue of universal Sovereignty? It certainly doesn't demonstrate anything remotely like critical thinking skills and seems a lot more like a dodge.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #17

Post by JehovahsWitness »

brunumb wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:33 am
Exactly how does that answer the question regarding Satan being allowed to exist and tempt mankind to settle the issue of universal Sovereignty?
I wasn't addressing that question. The above answer was in response to the question...
Miles wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:21 am
1) Exactly where does this information come from?



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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #18

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:55 am
nobspeople wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:42 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:30 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:35 pm
Any supreme, perfect being worth's its salt wouldn't put imperfect being in charge to write his story ...

It is a presumption that he did. According to scripture God has always "been in charge" of his written word. ( 2 Tim 3:16 ; 1 Peter 1:25 )






JW
If true, all the more reason to discount him
Maybe he needed a ghost writer. Or a better editor at the very least
Why do you say that? I see no evidence of bad writing in scripture nor anything a good editor would have added or removed. The bible is in my opinion just perfect.





JW

The 100 best nonfiction books: No 100 – King James Bible: The Authorised Version (1611)
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... ames-bible
Many of the stories in the bible make no sense IMO. God's actions make no sense IMO. Many stories feature supernatural happenings that need to be seen to be believed for me.
In order to believe the bible to be true and 'God breathed' one needs to have faith.
I don't have faith in the writers of the bible to be able to represent any supreme being, much less a perfect, all creating one.
IMO, a perfect being would need to one to write their own story; he can create the universe but not write his own story himself? Makes zero sense to me.

All of these stories I reference here have been covered on this forum in numerous threads so there's no need to list then analyze these stories here in this thread as I supplied an answer to your question.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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William
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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #19

Post by William »

Tommy63 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:59 am Why would God do this?
What makes you think - if we exist within a creation - that The Creator would do this?

Have you thought about viewing the biblical stories as mythology created by human beings around firesides and that the most popular of those stories were eventually written down and compiled into different books which were then sold to the believers in said stories, after those believers were taught how to read?

Where does this place The Creator?

If you were The Creator and created this Universe and placed consciousness inside of its forms, why do you think you would have created this?

The mythologies of Christianity tells us that it is because The Creator had a problem with one of his first creations - a race of beings who questioned The Creator, claiming that they could not have been created since they had always existed, so how could the one saying such, actually BE their creator?

[Link to a post with better explanation]
Last edited by William on Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why would God do this?

Post #20

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:53 am
Many of the stories in the bible make no sense IMO ...

Opinion duly noted and dismissed. In my opinion every single story in the bible makes perfect sense.



Have a most excellent weekend,


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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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