Hiding The Truth

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William
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Hiding The Truth

Post #1

Post by William »

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Is hiding the whole truth [about something] and thus not fully informing those who come in contact with something which not only claims to be the truth, but also claims to hide the whole truth about that particular claim of truth, a good thing to do?

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Re: Hiding The Truth

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Post by Purple Knight »

William wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 pmIs hiding the whole truth [about something] and thus not fully informing those who come in contact with something which not only claims to be the truth, but also claims to hide the whole truth about that particular claim of truth, a good thing to do?
Arguably yes. Or at least, there's arguably a good reason.

Imagine if, if you had complete knowledge, there was no way to do the right thing. No thing was the right thing. All options were evil.

Now let's say you have incomplete knowledge. You see two choices in front of you, X, and Y. You know X is evil but you have no reason to believe Y is evil, so you pick Y. In that case who could fault you?

In other words, if the greater nature of the universe is that all actions are in fact evil, it's at least possible that God would pull the wool over our eyes to create the opportunity to be good. Now giving us plausible deniability isn't exactly on the up-and-up, but if God is doing it and we're just dumb bricks, there's not really too much blame to be assigned to us.

However this massively departs from the Christian God whose objective (at least seems to be) to create as many opportunities for blame as possible, even if only to absolve humanity anyway. For example, I'm liable for what eve did. Now, God could have easily created a universe where people were not liable for the sins of others. Instead he chose to create one where they were, and since I don't have a time machine (...presently...) I can't do anything about what Eve does or does not do, so I'm just stuck with that sin. Not the actions of a being that wishes to create less blame.

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Re: Hiding The Truth

Post #3

Post by nobspeople »

William wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 pm There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Is hiding the whole truth [about something] and thus not fully informing those who come in contact with something which not only claims to be the truth, but also claims to hide the whole truth about that particular claim of truth, a good thing to do?
There seems to be a concept (excuse I call it) where many believers tend to claim that God limits what people know in order to protect them, citing (incorrectly) parent/child relationships as an example.
That idea fails when one considers God can protect 'his children' from anything it wished to while allowing them knowledge and experience at the same time. Why limit God's abilities when God is (said to be) the one that created all things?
All that aside, if God is so righteous, so correct for humanity's ultimate desire and wish, the great 'be all end all' of existence, why not allow humanity to know 'everything'? This would allow them to make the most complete, well thought out, accurate decision possible without the need of faith.
But God doesn't seem to want that. God wants blind faith; God wants people to give up all they have to follow him; God wants complete surrender to his will...all the while not provided total truth about the world in which we are forced to live.
That's not freedom.
That's slavery.
And if you don't bend to his will, that's fine: you can spend eternity in damnation, in fire, in suffering, etc.
Such a loving God.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Hiding The Truth

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Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 pm There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.
Please show where?

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Re: Hiding The Truth

Post #5

Post by William »

1213 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:51 am
William wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 pm There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.
Please show where?
You are a bible believing Christian. If you do not know where the information can be found in the biblical writ, it is not because it is hidden from the eyes of your understanding.

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Re: Hiding The Truth

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Post by 2ndpillar2 »

1213 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:51 am
William wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 pm There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.
Please show where?
Yeshua spoke in parables so those without ears to hear and eyes to see, will remain in the dark (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/lawless will not understand, even at the "end of the age" (Daniel 12:10)

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Re: Hiding The Truth

Post #7

Post by William »

Matthew 13:13, NASB: "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

That was the main thrust of the public information. It was for people who did not want to know any better. People who are willing to accept the crumbs which fall from the table, rather than sit at the table and partake of the whole course.

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Re: Hiding The Truth

Post #8

Post by Haven »

It’s lying by omission, and most religions (including Christianity) teach that lying is undesirable, even sinful. The exception that many believers make is if the lie is for a greater good, or to protect others. They would likely claim that the biblical god was acting for the greater good when he lied. The burden of proof rests on them to demonstrate this.
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Re: Hiding The Truth

Post #9

Post by Overcomer »

Matt. 11:25 reads:

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Sorry, but I'm just cutting and pasting today for the sake of time. I posted a link to the source at the conclusion of this explanation:

CLAIM: Why would God hide his truth from people?

RESPONSE: God’s truth is only hidden from those who don’t want to see it. Those with hardened hearts are unable to see the truth, but those with open hearts can see it. The context reveals this clearly. In the context (Mt. 11:17-19), Jesus points out that kids play happy music (with no response) and sad music (with no response). This parallels verse 18 where John the Baptist wasn’t a drinker (and they hated him) and Jesus was a drinker (and they hated him too!). Thus Jesus is saying that no matter what they do, the people will not be happy. The wise are demanding a certain approach, but the infants are submitting to what God says. Therefore, God’s truth is hidden in plain sight! Those without an open heart cannot see it.

Luke’s parallel account of the same event shows that Jesus wasn’t hiding his truth from all of humanity—only those who were hardened: “When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John” (Lk. 7:29-30). Notice that the sinners came to Christ through his words, while the Pharisees did not. The same sun melts butter, but hardens clay.

From: https://www.evidenceunseen.com/bible-di ... hide-this/

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Re: Hiding The Truth

Post #10

Post by Haven »

Overcomer wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:27 pm Matt. 11:25 reads:

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Sorry, but I'm just cutting and pasting today for the sake of time. I posted a link to the source at the conclusion of this explanation:

CLAIM: Why would God hide his truth from people?

RESPONSE: God’s truth is only hidden from those who don’t want to see it.
The way you have presented the Biblical god’s position, it is essentially unfalsifiable — and therefore cannot be rationally believed. It’s not a claim that can be demonstrated to be true or false, it’s simply a statement of faith, and statements of faith can’t be analyzed rationally.

In addition, my own experience says that this is not true. When I was questioning, and eventually leaving, Christianity (10-11 years ago), I really wanted to believe. I prayed for the Christian god to reveal himself, to offer evidence to satisfy my doubts. Instead, this never happened, and I found more scientific and historical evidence, and philosophical argument, to suggest that the Christian god likely did not exist. I know anecdotes are not evidence, and I don’t expect you to take me at face value, but this is what I’ve experienced—and it seems to provide a counter example to the Biblical statement.
Last edited by Haven on Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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