Hiding The Truth

[William]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Is hiding the whole truth [about something] and thus not fully informing those who come in contact with something which not only claims to be the truth, but also claims to hide the whole truth about that particular claim of truth, a good thing to do?

[1213]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Please show where?

Yeshua spoke in parables so those without ears to hear and eyes to see, will remain in the dark (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/lawless will not understand, even at the "end of the age" (Daniel 12:10)

But, that is not the same as “hiding the truth”. The message is visible to all, but not all want to receive and understand it.

[nobspeople]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Please show where?

Yeshua spoke in parables so those without ears to hear and eyes to see, will remain in the dark (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/lawless will not understand, even at the "end of the age" (Daniel 12:10)

But, that is not the same as “hiding the truth”. The message is visible to all, but not all want to receive and understand it.

I'm not sure if that's a (not so good of an) excuse or a lie - maybe both - for multiple reasons
1) One can hide the truth in parables and riddles easily. It's a sneaky way of not telling the truth (aka hiding the truth) when it can be said clearly and accurately
2) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the WANT to receive it is incorrect, as there are many who want to receive it yet never get it. That's a fact as there are several on this very site. Even one in a several billion would make your claim as incorrect and 1+2= tacos.
3) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the UNDERSTAND is senseless, and one of many reason why people want nothing to do with Christianity and its practitioners. How can someone, an assumed person that's imperfect, be blamed for not understanding something when the one making the claim has every means possible to ensure they understand it? Not only does that make zero sense, it's an underhanded slap in the face to those looking but not receiving from your invisible magician the sky.

[2ndpillar2]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Please show where?

Yeshua spoke in parables so those without ears to hear and eyes to see, will remain in the dark (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/lawless will not understand, even at the "end of the age" (Daniel 12:10)

But, that is not the same as “hiding the truth”. The message is visible to all, but not all want to receive and understand it.

I'm not sure if that's a (not so good of an) excuse or a lie - maybe both - for multiple reasons
1) One can hide the truth in parables and riddles easily. It's a sneaky way of not telling the truth (aka hiding the truth) when it can be said clearly and accurately
2) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the WANT to receive it is incorrect, as there are many who want to receive it yet never get it. That's a fact as there are several on this very site. Even one in a several billion would make your claim as incorrect and 1+2= tacos.
3) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the UNDERSTAND is senseless, and one of many reason why people want nothing to do with Christianity and its practitioners. How can someone, an assumed person that's imperfect, be blamed for not understanding something when the one making the claim has every means possible to ensure they understand it? Not only does that make zero sense, it's an underhanded slap in the face to those looking but not receiving from your invisible magician the sky.

The "wicked"/"tares" are the ones who buy the lie of the serpent/devil, and do not "understand" (Daniel 12:10)(Matthew 13). If you don't want to be among the wicked, then keep the Commandments/Law. Transgression of the Law is sin. The consequence of sin is death and destruction.

[Haven]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #24]

Do you have any evidence for this statement? Why do you believe that those unconvinced are “transgressors” who follow the deceptions of the “devil?” Where is the evidence that there is even a “devil?”

[William]

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

Leaving aside the issue that there is no apparent evidence for such a being—why would a good god, who wants people to come to her/it/him, be so elusive?

I think it is because people make it that way themselves.

Why would this being allow an honest seeker such as myself to conclude that (based on Bible content, content of other religious books and teachings, and observation of the world) he most likely does not exist, and even if it did, she would be at the very least chaotic and capricious, and most likely clearly malevolent? Why do this to an honest seeker?

What are you honestly seeking? Until I know that, I cannot offer possible reasons as to 'why'.

Now consider that millions of ex-Christians report similar findings and experiences. Why would a good god, who wants to be worshipped, continue to ensure people make the same conclusions about its existence and ethical status?

Do you know in what way The Creator "wants to be worshipped"?

[Haven]

No, I don't. That's not my job. If this "Creator" exists, and if she wants to be worshipped by humans, then it is her job to tell humans how she wants to be worshipped. The onus isn't on us to figure out what this otherworldly being wants and satisfy its desires. There's no moral obligation to do such a thing.

As for what I want -- today, my spirituality revolves around concepts, entities, and systems, not persons. I don't think any person (no matter how powerful) should be worshiped, such a thing, in my view, is blasphemy, because it implies that goodness and spirit do not have being, but that they are merely products of a subjective mind.

10-12 years ago, however, I really wanted to be Christian, and did so much prayer, listening, and research, hoping to strengthen, and then save, my faith. I was an earnest seeker, and I did all the right things (prayer, fasting, bible study, church attendance, small groups, historical research). Why didn't your god reveal to me its truth? You're more than welcome to find my posts here from 2010-2012, where I talk about going through this process, and the emotional pain it caused me.

[William]

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

Leaving aside the issue that there is no apparent evidence for such a being—why would a good god, who wants people to come to her/it/him, be so elusive?

I think it is because people make it that way themselves.

Why would this being allow an honest seeker such as myself to conclude that (based on Bible content, content of other religious books and teachings, and observation of the world) he most likely does not exist, and even if it did, she would be at the very least chaotic and capricious, and most likely clearly malevolent? Why do this to an honest seeker?

What are you honestly seeking? Until I know that, I cannot offer possible reasons as to 'why'.

Now consider that millions of ex-Christians report similar findings and experiences. Why would a good god, who wants to be worshipped, continue to ensure people make the same conclusions about its existence and ethical status?

Do you know in what way The Creator "wants to be worshipped"?

No, I don't. That's not my job. If this "Creator" exists, and if she wants to be worshipped by humans, then it is her job to tell humans how she wants to be worshipped. The onus isn't on us to figure out what this otherworldly being wants and satisfy its desires. There's no moral obligation to do such a thing.

So then you are only making an argument re "worshiping" because of what you have heard. I myself see no reason to worship The Creator or why The Creator would require to be "worshipped".
I have seen it argued that there are different ways in which people decide to worship The Creator...for example -

John 4:21-24

Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

As for what I want -- today, my spirituality revolves around concepts, entities, and systems, not persons. I don't think any person (no matter how powerful) should be worshiped, such a thing, in my view, is blasphemy, because it implies that goodness and spirit do not have being, but that they are merely products of a subjective mind.

Perhaps then this is what Jesus may have been referring to?

10-12 years ago, however, I really wanted to be Christian, and did so much prayer, listening, and research, hoping to strengthen, and then save, my faith. I was an earnest seeker, and I did all the right things (prayer, fasting, bible study, church attendance, small groups, historical research). Why didn't your god reveal to me its truth? You're more than welcome to find my posts here from 2010-2012, where I talk about going through this process, and the emotional pain it caused me.

We are the cause of our own emotional pain and I empathize with you and all others who went down that road - arms wide open, heart vulnerable. I did so myself.
However, even that I came to the same conclusion about Christianity, I did not allow for this to prevent me from finding a way through 'the gate' which Christianity [and religions in general] attempts to turn people away from entering [and do not go through themselves].

I recognized that it is essentially my choices and beliefs based on those choices which caused the emotional pain and anguish and that - in accepting this as the truth - I did not have to [any longer] play the part of anyone else's victim.

[nobspeople]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Please show where?

Yeshua spoke in parables so those without ears to hear and eyes to see, will remain in the dark (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/lawless will not understand, even at the "end of the age" (Daniel 12:10)

But, that is not the same as “hiding the truth”. The message is visible to all, but not all want to receive and understand it.

I'm not sure if that's a (not so good of an) excuse or a lie - maybe both - for multiple reasons
1) One can hide the truth in parables and riddles easily. It's a sneaky way of not telling the truth (aka hiding the truth) when it can be said clearly and accurately
2) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the WANT to receive it is incorrect, as there are many who want to receive it yet never get it. That's a fact as there are several on this very site. Even one in a several billion would make your claim as incorrect and 1+2= tacos.
3) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the UNDERSTAND is senseless, and one of many reason why people want nothing to do with Christianity and its practitioners. How can someone, an assumed person that's imperfect, be blamed for not understanding something when the one making the claim has every means possible to ensure they understand it? Not only does that make zero sense, it's an underhanded slap in the face to those looking but not receiving from your invisible magician the sky.

The "wicked"/"tares" are the ones who buy the lie of the serpent/devil, and do not "understand" (Daniel 12:10)(Matthew 13). If you don't want to be among the wicked, then keep the Commandments/Law. Transgression of the Law is sin. The consequence of sin is death and destruction.

What you said has little, to nothing, to do with my comment as you worded it. You're speaking as if you did (or people can) 'skip' the whole 'wicked' times and POOF come to understanding. It doesn't work that way.

If you don't want to be among the wicked, then keep the Commandments/Law.

Everyone falls in to this category in their lives at some point, at the very least. Thus, if you accept God hides things 'from the wicked/tares' that 'buy lies', that would include everyone at some point. Logic would dictate that, because of this, God would hide things from them.
Unless, the accept him (in whatever format you wish to use). But how can that happen if he's actively hiding things and you're a wicked tare?
You have to accept he will cause understanding by faith, but faith isn't something you're born having, it has to develop, and it can't if you're a 'wicked tare', unless God steps in, by your asking, and shows himself. But if you're a wicked tare, that won't happen because, well, you're a wicked tare, buying lies with no reason to ask God anything.
Basically, I find your claim is circular reasoning at best, an uninformed, illogical excuse most likely, or an outright means of being dishonest.

[1213]

...as there are many who want to receive it yet never get it. That's a fact as there are several on this very site...

Interesting. Can you give one example who has not received, even though he wants and what is not received? Why do you think the person has wanted to receive?

[William]

Everyone falls in to this category in their lives at some point, at the very least. Thus, if you accept God hides things 'from the wicked/tares' that 'buy lies', that would include everyone at some point. Logic would dictate that, because of this, God would hide things from them.
Unless, the accept him (in whatever format you wish to use). But how can that happen if he's actively hiding things and you're a wicked tare?

The way I see it, if The Creator hides things it is because we don't want to see those things. We want them to remain hidden from our awareness.

You have to accept he will cause understanding by faith, but faith isn't something you're born having, it has to develop, and it can't if you're a 'wicked tare', unless God steps in, by your asking, and shows himself. But if you're a wicked tare, that won't happen because, well, you're a wicked tare, buying lies with no reason to ask God anything.
Basically, I find your claim is circular reasoning at best, an uninformed, illogical excuse most likely, or an outright means of being dishonest.

The way I see it Faith is necessary because we have brought into things which make it that way. It is not the end of everything to have to place faith in The Creator - in the idea that I exist within a creation. The faith is soon enough replaced by the acknowledgement that I do indeed exist within a Creation. A type of certainty.

Still, one is then [thereafter] required to think about what kind of a Creator are we dealing with, and in that, find resolution.

If you think you are one of those wicked/tares, to the point that you believe it to be true, then it is not The Creators choice for you. It is your choice for yourself.

Otherwise, continue examining everything and seeing therein "what is good"