Hiding The Truth

[William]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Is hiding the whole truth [about something] and thus not fully informing those who come in contact with something which not only claims to be the truth, but also claims to hide the whole truth about that particular claim of truth, a good thing to do?

[William]

It is somewhat the same reasoning as someone from any denomination of religion might argue...."They have hardened hearts" [against our particular beliefs] but it does not take away from the argument that the public content which is known, is that which was meant to be for those who settled for the crumbs. All denominations are those who have settled for the crumbs, for they have settled for the crumbs even while being made aware that there is more - far more - available for them to find...

[nobspeople]

Matt. 11:25 reads:

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Sorry, but I'm just cutting and pasting today for the sake of time. I posted a link to the source at the conclusion of this explanation:

CLAIM: Why would God hide his truth from people?

RESPONSE: God’s truth is only hidden from those who don’t want to see it.

The way you have presented the Biblical god’s position, it is essentially unfalsifiable — and therefore cannot be rationally believed. It’s not a claim that can be demonstrated to be true or false, it’s simply a statement of faith, and statements of faith can’t be analyzed rationally.

In addition, my own experience says that this is not true. When I was questioning, and eventually leaving, Christianity (10-11 years ago), I really wanted to believe. I prayed for the Christian god to reveal himself, to offer evidence to satisfy my doubts. Instead, this never happened, and I found more scientific and historical evidence, and philosophical argument, to suggest that the Christian god likely did not exist. I know anecdotes are not evidence, and I don’t expect you to take me at face value, but this is what I’ve experienced—and it seems to provide a counter example to the Biblical statement.

I, too, had questions that were never answered while I was in Christianity for decades. And it wasn't for the lack of trying, praying, crying, studying, fasting, seeking counsel, et al.
The answers never came. What did come was other ideals, proofs that I was able to accept, probabilities that, to me, were much more likely to be true than how modern Christianity is taught today.
Thanks for your post; it's nice to see others here, seeking for a more in-depth understanding of life and what comes with it.

[William]

It is somewhat the same reasoning as someone from any denomination of religion might argue...."They have hardened hearts" [against our particular beliefs] but it does not take away from the argument that the public content which is known, is that which was meant to be for those who settled for the crumbs. All denominations are those who have settled for the crumbs, for they have settled for the crumbs even while being made aware that there is more - far more - available for them to find...

"The coming of the Messiah" [according to Christian Mythology] is in relation to pre-coming of Messiah days. We then have stories of different peoples witness to supposed events in relation to Jesus [the Christian Messiah] as well as a very interesting tidbit from John [The Beloved Disciple] who informed us that most of what God breathed was not recorded in the Bible.

King James Bible
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

If all of what [the Gods only begotten son {Jesus}] had to say. was not considered by the God to be something which should be recorded in the Bible , then the God obviously doesn't see the Bible as all that important for that to be the case.

If anything, one can say with fair certainty that, the Bible is the "handmaiden" to the folk who have little to no interest in the information not reveled to them, and that is why the God only gave the nod for those things which those type of folk could handle, because those type of folk are only [even perhaps just] worthy of the little they can handle and even with that information, they are confused and gather themselves into denominations and have different versions of the Bible as their preference which they use to oppose one another whilst claiming to be "the one" through which 'God breathes' [to use the phrase] through.

The downside of this is that it [more often than not] gives the God a bad name...obviously the God can live with that...as *those who can handle much, much more of The Truth, bear witness to. [*These are generally treated by Christians as individuals who are demonically influenced...]

Most of the time the folk who have no interest in the information not reveled to them, raise their collective voices to drown out such witness, much the same way in which people who don't want to know something might put their hands over their ears and make the "lalala" sound as a sort of mantra.

[William]

Matt. 11:25 reads:

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Sorry, but I'm just cutting and pasting today for the sake of time. I posted a link to the source at the conclusion of this explanation:

CLAIM: Why would God hide his truth from people?

RESPONSE: God’s truth is only hidden from those who don’t want to see it.

The way you have presented the Biblical god’s position, it is essentially unfalsifiable — and therefore cannot be rationally believed. It’s not a claim that can be demonstrated to be true or false, it’s simply a statement of faith, and statements of faith can’t be analyzed rationally.

In addition, my own experience says that this is not true. When I was questioning, and eventually leaving, Christianity (10-11 years ago), I really wanted to believe. I prayed for the Christian god to reveal himself, to offer evidence to satisfy my doubts. Instead, this never happened, and I found more scientific and historical evidence, and philosophical argument, to suggest that the Christian god likely did not exist. I know anecdotes are not evidence, and I don’t expect you to take me at face value, but this is what I’ve experienced—and it seems to provide a counter example to the Biblical statement.

I, too, had questions that were never answered while I was in Christianity for decades. And it wasn't for the lack of trying, praying, crying, studying, fasting, seeking counsel, et al.
The answers never came. What did come was other ideals, proofs that I was able to accept, probabilities that, to me, were much more likely to be true than how modern Christianity is taught today.
Thanks for your post; it's nice to see others here, seeking for a more in-depth understanding of life and what comes with it.

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

[nobspeople]

Matt. 11:25 reads:

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Sorry, but I'm just cutting and pasting today for the sake of time. I posted a link to the source at the conclusion of this explanation:

CLAIM: Why would God hide his truth from people?

RESPONSE: God’s truth is only hidden from those who don’t want to see it.

The way you have presented the Biblical god’s position, it is essentially unfalsifiable — and therefore cannot be rationally believed. It’s not a claim that can be demonstrated to be true or false, it’s simply a statement of faith, and statements of faith can’t be analyzed rationally.

In addition, my own experience says that this is not true. When I was questioning, and eventually leaving, Christianity (10-11 years ago), I really wanted to believe. I prayed for the Christian god to reveal himself, to offer evidence to satisfy my doubts. Instead, this never happened, and I found more scientific and historical evidence, and philosophical argument, to suggest that the Christian god likely did not exist. I know anecdotes are not evidence, and I don’t expect you to take me at face value, but this is what I’ve experienced—and it seems to provide a counter example to the Biblical statement.

I, too, had questions that were never answered while I was in Christianity for decades. And it wasn't for the lack of trying, praying, crying, studying, fasting, seeking counsel, et al.
The answers never came. What did come was other ideals, proofs that I was able to accept, probabilities that, to me, were much more likely to be true than how modern Christianity is taught today.
Thanks for your post; it's nice to see others here, seeking for a more in-depth understanding of life and what comes with it.

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

An interesting concept for sure. However, I wouldn't expect that from a loving supreme being. Then again, a lot of what God is said to have done (and even allowed to have happen) doesn't show a loving being in any way.
My 2¢

[William]

Matt. 11:25 reads:

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Sorry, but I'm just cutting and pasting today for the sake of time. I posted a link to the source at the conclusion of this explanation:

CLAIM: Why would God hide his truth from people?

RESPONSE: God’s truth is only hidden from those who don’t want to see it.

The way you have presented the Biblical god’s position, it is essentially unfalsifiable — and therefore cannot be rationally believed. It’s not a claim that can be demonstrated to be true or false, it’s simply a statement of faith, and statements of faith can’t be analyzed rationally.

In addition, my own experience says that this is not true. When I was questioning, and eventually leaving, Christianity (10-11 years ago), I really wanted to believe. I prayed for the Christian god to reveal himself, to offer evidence to satisfy my doubts. Instead, this never happened, and I found more scientific and historical evidence, and philosophical argument, to suggest that the Christian god likely did not exist. I know anecdotes are not evidence, and I don’t expect you to take me at face value, but this is what I’ve experienced—and it seems to provide a counter example to the Biblical statement.

I, too, had questions that were never answered while I was in Christianity for decades. And it wasn't for the lack of trying, praying, crying, studying, fasting, seeking counsel, et al.
The answers never came. What did come was other ideals, proofs that I was able to accept, probabilities that, to me, were much more likely to be true than how modern Christianity is taught today.
Thanks for your post; it's nice to see others here, seeking for a more in-depth understanding of life and what comes with it.

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

An interesting concept for sure. However, I wouldn't expect that from a loving supreme being. Then again, a lot of what God is said to have done (and even allowed to have happen) doesn't show a loving being in any way.
My 2¢

When observing the universe, are you able to view it as something loving? Somewhere a loving creator would place sentient beings?
If not, then that would have to be the primary reason for your subsequent concerns. The God of the Bible is just your scapegoat in relation to that.

[Haven]

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

Leaving aside the issue that there is no apparent evidence for such a being—why would a good god, who wants people to come to her/it/him, be so elusive? Why would this being allow an honest seeker such as myself to conclude that (based on Bible content, content of other religious books and teachings, and observation of the world) he most likely does not exist, and even if it did, she would be at the very least chaotic and capricious, and most likely clearly malevolent? Why do this to an honest seeker?

Now consider that millions of ex-Christians report similar findings and experiences. Why would a good god, who wants to be worshipped, continue to ensure people make the same conclusions about its existence and ethical status?

[nobspeople]

Matt. 11:25 reads:

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Sorry, but I'm just cutting and pasting today for the sake of time. I posted a link to the source at the conclusion of this explanation:

CLAIM: Why would God hide his truth from people?

RESPONSE: God’s truth is only hidden from those who don’t want to see it.

The way you have presented the Biblical god’s position, it is essentially unfalsifiable — and therefore cannot be rationally believed. It’s not a claim that can be demonstrated to be true or false, it’s simply a statement of faith, and statements of faith can’t be analyzed rationally.

In addition, my own experience says that this is not true. When I was questioning, and eventually leaving, Christianity (10-11 years ago), I really wanted to believe. I prayed for the Christian god to reveal himself, to offer evidence to satisfy my doubts. Instead, this never happened, and I found more scientific and historical evidence, and philosophical argument, to suggest that the Christian god likely did not exist. I know anecdotes are not evidence, and I don’t expect you to take me at face value, but this is what I’ve experienced—and it seems to provide a counter example to the Biblical statement.

I, too, had questions that were never answered while I was in Christianity for decades. And it wasn't for the lack of trying, praying, crying, studying, fasting, seeking counsel, et al.
The answers never came. What did come was other ideals, proofs that I was able to accept, probabilities that, to me, were much more likely to be true than how modern Christianity is taught today.
Thanks for your post; it's nice to see others here, seeking for a more in-depth understanding of life and what comes with it.

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

An interesting concept for sure. However, I wouldn't expect that from a loving supreme being. Then again, a lot of what God is said to have done (and even allowed to have happen) doesn't show a loving being in any way.
My 2¢

When observing the universe, are you able to view it as something loving? Somewhere a loving creator would place sentient beings?
If not, then that would have to be the primary reason for your subsequent concerns. The God of the Bible is just your scapegoat in relation to that.

My comment was directed towards the loving creator spoken about in the bible which I personally have found to be false. In that sense, my comment was facetious. That said, I don't totally discount the possibility in the long run.

[William]

Putting 2 and 2 together, it can be argued that the God uses the religious in order to weed out those not interested in even what the Bible followers say, and those like yourself who even resort to emotional levels in your bid to connect with the God, become collateral. Such are those who have stood at the gate wanting to come in but are turned away by those who don't want others to go in and don't want to go in themselves.

New International Version

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

Leaving aside the issue that there is no apparent evidence for such a being—why would a good god, who wants people to come to her/it/him, be so elusive? Why would this being allow an honest seeker such as myself to conclude that (based on Bible content, content of other religious books and teachings, and observation of the world) he most likely does not exist, and even if it did, she would be at the very least chaotic and capricious, and most likely clearly malevolent? Why do this to an honest seeker?

Now consider that millions of ex-Christians report similar findings and experiences. Why would a good god, who wants to be worshipped, continue to ensure people make the same conclusions about its existence and ethical status?

The clue is in Jesus referring to The Secrets of The Fathers Kingdom, which are not recorded in any Bible.

It obviously doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else have a problem with an invisible hard to find Creator of this Creation.

[Haven]

The clue is in Jesus referring to The Secrets of The Fathers Kingdom, which are not recorded in any Bible.

It obviously doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else have a problem with an invisible hard to find Creator of this Creation.

How do you know Jesus was speaking the truth, based on that statement alone? Have you considered the possibility that he may have been mistaken or even deliberately attempting to deceive? Have you weighed the possibility that his words may have been distorted or misrepresented by the authors of the gospels (Jesus did not write them)?

Also, this isn’t a personal thing for me, at least not anymore. My frustration at being unable to believe in Christianity has long since passed, and my philosophy has evolved very much since those days as a college kid, trying to distinguish the truth from the dogma my parents and church taught me.

Today, I find it absurd to base spirituality or faith on a person (including any being that is personal in the way we are—theistic gods, aliens, creators, person-spirits, etc.) rather than on a Concept, an Idea, a Connection that permeates existence. Obviously this is beyond the scope of this thread, but I’d be happy to start a new thread in Religion and Philosophy to discuss it .