Hiding The Truth

[William]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Is hiding the whole truth [about something] and thus not fully informing those who come in contact with something which not only claims to be the truth, but also claims to hide the whole truth about that particular claim of truth, a good thing to do?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to William in post #31]

The way I see it, if The Creator hides things it is because we don't want to see those things. We want them to remain hidden from our awareness.

Surely that may be for some, but not everyone (speaking from personal experience).

It is hard for me to tell. I may be confusing what you write with what Haven writes, but the impression I get is that you gave up looking.
Sorry if that is the wrong impression...

No apologies needed.
I haven't given up totally, in that I'm open to possibilities. But actively seeking from the modern Christian god? After decades of asking, crying, praying, seeking, knocking, seeking counsel, et al, I'm no longer pulling at his coat tails asking. If he wants to offer something that gets my attention, I'm all ears. Otherwise....

Out of curiosity, what exactly would you expect that would satisfy that The Creator has your attention?
[lets not confuse The Creator with all the Christian ideas they dress The Creator up in]

I can't totally answer the 'non-Christian god' creator ideal as I haven't had a lot of time to consider that option.
In regards to the other option, I suspect, if God is all knowing, powerful and loving, he'd be able to throw something my way that would get my attention and cement my belief in him.
Either way, what that would be I would think I'd know when I see it.

[William]

[Replying to William in post #31]

The way I see it, if The Creator hides things it is because we don't want to see those things. We want them to remain hidden from our awareness.

Surely that may be for some, but not everyone (speaking from personal experience).

It is hard for me to tell. I may be confusing what you write with what Haven writes, but the impression I get is that you gave up looking.
Sorry if that is the wrong impression...

No apologies needed.
I haven't given up totally, in that I'm open to possibilities. But actively seeking from the modern Christian god? After decades of asking, crying, praying, seeking, knocking, seeking counsel, et al, I'm no longer pulling at his coat tails asking. If he wants to offer something that gets my attention, I'm all ears. Otherwise....

Out of curiosity, what exactly would you expect that would satisfy that The Creator has your attention?
[lets not confuse The Creator with all the Christian ideas they dress The Creator up in]

I can't totally answer the 'non-Christian god' creator ideal as I haven't had a lot of time to consider that option.

Would it be fair to say then that you have only really considered and rejected Christian ideas about The Creator [both specific to your personal past circumstance and Christianity in general]

In regards to the other option, I suspect, if God is all knowing, powerful and loving, he'd be able to throw something my way that would get my attention and cement my belief in him.

Sure we can assume that. But my question has more to do with IF The Creator was to use these attributes, THEN what would you accept as a legitimate example of this?

For example, would you require something grand which not only you, but also every other person on the planet [objectively] could not fail to accept? [whatever you think that grand thing might be]
Or would you accept a more quiet approach in subjective evidence meant specifically for you? [ again - whatever you think that quiet approach might manifest]

Either way, what that would be I would think I'd know when I see it.

Which of course is precisely why I am asking you this question. What is 'it' you think you would 'know' if you saw it?

Generally when I have asked this question before to folk who have shared a similar position as you are in, there is no answer.

I chose the more realistic path of being quietly shown. When I put it to The Creator what it was I wanted to see, not only did I get to see it, but I also got more than I asked for. This in itself had/has the effect of leading me on into more and more reveals.

In order for this to happen, I also had to place myself in a particular position where The Creator could make that display for me to witness.

I could speculate as to why The Creator works in that fashion, but the whole purpose of hide and seek is to seek and find. I did not seek for a malevolent personality in The Creator, as that is not how I think The Creator of this Reality is.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to William in post #43]

But my question has more to do with IF The Creator was to use these attributes, THEN what would you accept as a legitimate example of this?

I can't say other than I'd know it when I see it

Would it be fair to say then that you have only really considered and rejected Christian ideas about The Creator [both specific to your personal past circumstance and Christianity in general]

Yes

would you require something grand which not only you, but also every other person on the planet [objectively] could not fail to accept? [whatever you think that grand thing might be]

No

What is 'it' you think you would 'know' if you saw it?

I'm not all knowing so I would only know when it was presented

When I put it to The Creator what it was I wanted to see, not only did I get to see it, but I also got more than I asked for.

For me, that's an issue. If you're looking for something, you can convince yourself you've found it when you want to convince yourself. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. For me, that's not a valid test.

In order for this to happen, I also had to place myself in a particular position where The Creator could make that display for me to witness.

For me, this won't work for the previously stated reason (self fulfilling prophecy). Besides, if the Creator wants to find me, it knows where to look and when. I should have zero reason to try to place myself where I think it will react. It needs to put forth the effort to find me, not me it IF it wants to be worshipped or seen as worthy. I'm worth enough for it to put for the effort it's hopefully capable of

I could speculate as to why The Creator works in that fashion,

As could I
[quote but the whole purpose of hide and seek is to seek and find. [/quote] I'm not hiding. I'm right here. Bring it

did not seek for a malevolent personality in The Creator, as that is not how I think The Creator of this Reality is.

That's great!

[William]

[Replying to William in post #43]

What is 'it' you think you would 'know' if you saw it?

I'm not all knowing so I would only know when it was presented

But what does that mean?

When I put it to The Creator what it was I wanted to see, not only did I get to see it, but I also got more than I asked for.

For me, that's an issue. If you're looking for something, you can convince yourself you've found it when you want to convince yourself. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. For me, that's not a valid test.

For me that is no different than you saying "I would only know when it was presented"

In order for this to happen, I also had to place myself in a particular position where The Creator could make that display for me to witness.

For me, this won't work for the previously stated reason (self fulfilling prophecy).

That is not what I am talking about when I say "I put it out there what I want to see" and "I also had to place myself in a particular position where The Creator could make that display for me to witness."

I could give an example but because I began this journey from Christian beliefs, the example will have that attached to it. So I would not want you to think in that, that I am sneakily slipping in "Christian stuff" after having implied to you that it is not the Christian idea of The Creator to which I am referring...

The reason for the particular example I want to share with you is because it was nearer the start of my journey into this knowledge and deserves to be mentioned for that.

Besides, if the Creator wants to find me, it knows where to look and when.

Of course. The Creator can even look through your own eyes.

I should have zero reason to try to place myself where I think it will react.

For the quiet subjective evidence, wherever you are is where The Creator must act.

It needs to put forth the effort to find me, not me it IF it wants to be worshipped or seen as worthy.

The Creator does not want your 'worship' or for you to see The Creator as 'worthy' if you do not want to do so or for that matter, if it is shallow and hollow yadayada.

I'm worth enough for it to put for the effort it's hopefully capable of

Hopefully. Would it present for you a problem if the feeling was mutual? [The Creator also being able to say the same]

I could speculate as to why The Creator works in that fashion,
but the whole purpose of hide and seek is to seek and find.

I'm not hiding. I'm right here. Bring it

I suppose that is the main difference between you and The Creator. The Creator knows that you exist. You have done your part, right?

did not seek for a malevolent personality in The Creator, as that is not how I think The Creator of this Reality is.

That's great!

As advice, I have to agree.

[brunumb]

I think it is common with atheists, when they find “truth” they like, they stop to that place and think basically that now they have found perfection, no need to think more.

It seems to me that the exact same thing could be said of you. When someone is convinced they have found the truth the point of searching is no longer there.

[brunumb]

Besides, if the Creator wants to find me, it knows where to look and when.

Precisely. When an omnipotent being decides to play hide and seek with a mere human being it is undeniably a very one-sided game. Any such being knows exactly what it would take to convince you of its existence. If that hasn't happened, it either doesn't care or doesn't exist.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to William in post #45]

But what does that mean?

It's pretty clear: I don't know ATM. Once it happens, then I will know.

For me that is no different than you saying "I would only know when it was presented"

That's great! We are individuals.

That is not what I am talking about when I say "I put it out there what I want to see" and "I also had to place myself in a particular position where The Creator could make that display for me to witness."

Perhaps, but that's how it appears to me. But I'm not judging you for that, no matter how it seems. If it works for you, sweet. But for me, I know that won't work.

The Creator can even look through your own eyes.

Ops.

For the quiet subjective evidence, wherever you are is where The Creator must act.

Then he needs to 'chop chop' and hurry up. I'm not getting any younger (though you couldn't tell from my amazing complexion).

The Creator does not want your 'worship' or for you to see The Creator as 'worthy' if you do not want to do so or for that matter

So what does this thing want?

Would it present for you a problem if the feeling was mutual?

Nope. Nothing ventured nothing gained, as they say.

I suppose that is the main difference between you and The Creator.

No I think that's just one of many, TBH.

The Creator knows that you exist. You have done your part, right?

I can't answer that without first knowing what my part is

[William]

[Replying to William in post #45]

The Creator can even look through your own eyes.

Ops.

*nods*

[2ndpillar2]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Please show where?

Yeshua spoke in parables so those without ears to hear and eyes to see, will remain in the dark (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/lawless will not understand, even at the "end of the age" (Daniel 12:10)

But, that is not the same as “hiding the truth”. The message is visible to all, but not all want to receive and understand it.

I'm not sure if that's a (not so good of an) excuse or a lie - maybe both - for multiple reasons
1) One can hide the truth in parables and riddles easily. It's a sneaky way of not telling the truth (aka hiding the truth) when it can be said clearly and accurately
2) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the WANT to receive it is incorrect, as there are many who want to receive it yet never get it. That's a fact as there are several on this very site. Even one in a several billion would make your claim as incorrect and 1+2= tacos.
3) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the UNDERSTAND is senseless, and one of many reason why people want nothing to do with Christianity and its practitioners. How can someone, an assumed person that's imperfect, be blamed for not understanding something when the one making the claim has every means possible to ensure they understand it? Not only does that make zero sense, it's an underhanded slap in the face to those looking but not receiving from your invisible magician the sky.

The "wicked"/"tares" are the ones who buy the lie of the serpent/devil, and do not "understand" (Daniel 12:10)(Matthew 13). If you don't want to be among the wicked, then keep the Commandments/Law. Transgression of the Law is sin. The consequence of sin is death and destruction.

What you said has little, to nothing, to do with my comment as you worded it. You're speaking as if you did (or people can) 'skip' the whole 'wicked' times and POOF come to understanding. It doesn't work that way.

If you don't want to be among the wicked, then keep the Commandments/Law.

Everyone falls in to this category in their lives at some point, at the very least. Thus, if you accept God hides things 'from the wicked/tares' that 'buy lies', that would include everyone at some point. Logic would dictate that, because of this, God would hide things from them.
Unless, the accept him (in whatever format you wish to use). But how can that happen if he's actively hiding things and you're a wicked tare?
You have to accept he will cause understanding by faith, but faith isn't something you're born having, it has to develop, and it can't if you're a 'wicked tare', unless God steps in, by your asking, and shows himself. But if you're a wicked tare, that won't happen because, well, you're a wicked tare, buying lies with no reason to ask God anything.
Basically, I find your claim is circular reasoning at best, an uninformed, illogical excuse most likely, or an outright means of being dishonest.

John explained it best, the light goes to the light, and darkness attracts darkness. John 3:19-21:
And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

If one is deceived, which according to Matthew 24, even the "elect" might possibly be deceived, then the obvious recourse is to confess your sins, repent, produce good fruit, and get baptized in the Spirit of God.

[William]

There are instances where biblical writ tells us that "God" [through various mediums] hides the whole truth.

Please show where?

Yeshua spoke in parables so those without ears to hear and eyes to see, will remain in the dark (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/lawless will not understand, even at the "end of the age" (Daniel 12:10)

But, that is not the same as “hiding the truth”. The message is visible to all, but not all want to receive and understand it.

I'm not sure if that's a (not so good of an) excuse or a lie - maybe both - for multiple reasons
1) One can hide the truth in parables and riddles easily. It's a sneaky way of not telling the truth (aka hiding the truth) when it can be said clearly and accurately
2) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the WANT to receive it is incorrect, as there are many who want to receive it yet never get it. That's a fact as there are several on this very site. Even one in a several billion would make your claim as incorrect and 1+2= tacos.
3) Claiming it's available to everyone so long as the UNDERSTAND is senseless, and one of many reason why people want nothing to do with Christianity and its practitioners. How can someone, an assumed person that's imperfect, be blamed for not understanding something when the one making the claim has every means possible to ensure they understand it? Not only does that make zero sense, it's an underhanded slap in the face to those looking but not receiving from your invisible magician the sky.

From what I understand of the process, any hidden truth which can be shown to be hidden because one is not interested [thus hides the truth from themselves] is a truth which does not hide itself.

Truth which is purposefully hidden [either from or by] is pretty much a lie perpetrated by those hiding it.

In the case of Jesus and what he spoke about in public, he concealed the truth within what he said, which could be considered a lie, depending upon what his intentions were.

If he wanted that which was concealed to have any chance of surviving its inevitable journey through the regions handlers, he succeeded in that. If those who understand his process have looked and have found that hidden thing, they understand that it was necessarily hidden but the religions [spirits of religion] used that to cloak it further with their own controlling interests.

So one requires the understanding that the layers have to be removed before the secrets can be revealed.