Nothing existed but God. One 'day' God decided to make everything. Thus life began, based on the biblical story.
Over time, things happened and God seemed to say to himself, 'Y'all know what? I think I need to start appointing people to write this junk down!"
Thus the bible began.
Over the years, he appointed more people to write down, not only what he said, but what he did.
Later, it was edited and translated and distributed throughout the planet.
Today, us lowly humans, have almost instant communication via the internet.
So it brings to question, why did God need the bible written down at all? Why doesn't God simply download what he wants us to know directly into our brains? Even before the wheel, God could have directed what he wants us to know in to our brains. He made our brains, our desire to know, think and understand many claim.
Surely this would have been better than an old fashion written word!
And yet, here we are (robots on other planets, DNA being sequenced, desiring to explore the universe) yet we still must rely on an old style, written word.
Why?
Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
Why is the bible needed at all?
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3187
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
- Has thanked: 1510 times
- Been thanked: 824 times
- 1213
- Savant
- Posts: 11342
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: Finland
- Has thanked: 312 times
- Been thanked: 357 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #31Anyone could say, “God downloaded this to my brain, believe what I say”. There could be easily millions of people who have different own message that they try to make others to believe. It is nice to have the Bible as an anchor to what is truly the message from God. Good thing about the Bible is that it is not just some momentary phenomena, but long-lasting testimony, which makes it to me more trustworthy.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm ...So it brings to question, why did God need the bible written down at all? Why doesn't God simply download what he wants us to know directly into our brains? ...
Also, Bible has teaching that at least two witnesses is needed. If we would have only downloaded message, how could we know it is truly from God?
-
- Sage
- Posts: 842
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:47 am
- Been thanked: 18 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #32Well, Yeshua expanded on that two witness teaching, he said if I only witness for myself, my witness is not true (John 5:31). On the other hand, Paul calls himself an apostle who God speaks to, on his own witness, and expects to be heeded as an apostle versus as a false prophet (Matthew 7:13-23). Yet Paul taught that "we" shall not all sleep"/die, yet "we" have all died.1213 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:53 pmAnyone could say, “God downloaded this to my brain, believe what I say”. There could be easily millions of people who have different own message that they try to make others to believe. It is nice to have the Bible as an anchor to what is truly the message from God. Good thing about the Bible is that it is not just some momentary phenomena, but long-lasting testimony, which makes it to me more trustworthy.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm ...So it brings to question, why did God need the bible written down at all? Why doesn't God simply download what he wants us to know directly into our brains? ...
Also, Bible has teaching that at least two witnesses is needed. If we would have only downloaded message, how could we know it is truly from God?
- brunumb
- Savant
- Posts: 5993
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 6607 times
- Been thanked: 3209 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #33It didn't last very long since we don't actually have any of the original writing. All we have are alleged copies of copies of copies of translations..... So much for the trustworthy word of God. He couldn't even organise that properly. Let's face it, the Bible is a mish-mash of contrived history and religious propaganda created by humans without any divine assistance.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
- AgnosticBoy
- Guru
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:44 pm
- Has thanked: 203 times
- Been thanked: 153 times
- Contact:
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #34There seems to be two parts to your question. There's the how and the why. Perhaps answering the why might help shed light on how God chooses to reveal himself.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm So it brings to question, why did God need the bible written down at all? Why doesn't God simply download what he wants us to know directly into our brains? Even before the wheel, God could have directed what he wants us to know in to our brains. He made our brains, our desire to know, think and understand many claim.
Surely this would have been better than an old fashion written word!
And yet, here we are (robots on other planets, DNA being sequenced, desiring to explore the universe) yet we still must rely on an old style, written word.
Why?
Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
I know that the ancient Jews did not really have a "Bible" to refer to. I doubt that much of the population was even literate. But my point is that God did pretty much what you're describing by performing miracles-on-demand, speaking through prophets, causing mountains to shake and catch fire, etc, etc. Yet, the Jews still did not believe or it wasn't enough to sustain the type of belief God wanted. Based on this account, I really question if people would believe in God given all of their requests for proof. Even Jesus's disciples denied him (remember the experienced miracles-on-demand) after being pressured by the community. Who's to say that you or I wouldn't have done the same?
So if as some Christians say, God wants us to believe based on faith because that would bring about a certain type of genuine or stronger belief in him, then I can't fully dismiss that point. I certainly wouldn't consider that as being definitive evidence against his existence, given all of the details I brought up earlier.
In my case, I have not experienced God . I also have a whole bunch of other questions, including points from atheists that I agree with, so for now I remain agnostic.
- Proud forum owner ∣ The Agnostic Forum
- As a non-partisan, I like to be on the side of truth. - AB
- As a non-partisan, I like to be on the side of truth. - AB
- Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8487
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2141 times
- Been thanked: 2293 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #35Yes, the Bible quite clearly has resolved all the disagreements Christians have:
What a mess we'd have without such an anchor.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- brunumb
- Savant
- Posts: 5993
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 6607 times
- Been thanked: 3209 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #36That's what is contained in the stories, but none of it is necessarily anything more than agenda inspired creative fiction and religious propaganda. You need to consider the motivations behind the stories.AgnosticBoy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:26 am But my point is that God did pretty much what you're describing by performing miracles-on-demand, speaking through prophets, causing mountains to shake and catch fire, etc, etc. Yet, the Jews still did not believe or it wasn't enough to sustain the type of belief God wanted.
Once again we have unsubstantiated claims that are somehow used to justify the demand for faith.AgnosticBoy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:26 am Based on this account, I really question if people would believe in God given all of their requests for proof. Even Jesus's disciples denied him (remember the experienced miracles-on-demand) after being pressured by the community. Who's to say that you or I wouldn't have done the same?
As soon as you require faith you have lost the argument. Faith is only required when there is really no compelling reason for belief. Faith allows one to believe anything, true or false. While it might engender stronger belief in some, that doesn't mean it is any closer to being true. It's not a matter of it being definitive evidence against his existence, it contributes nothing as evidence for his existence.AgnosticBoy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:26 am So if as some Christians say, God wants us to believe based on faith because that would bring about a certain type of genuine or stronger belief in him, then I can't fully dismiss that point. I certainly wouldn't consider that as being definitive evidence against his existence, given all of the details I brought up earlier.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3187
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
- Has thanked: 1510 times
- Been thanked: 824 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #37[Replying to 1213 in post #32]
We could go on.
Point is, since I'm not all knowing and all powerful, I can't say what would be the best way. It would seem the way God picked (aka the bible) isn't working too well, either.
Could God have done something better? I would expect so. But he didn't so it seems one of the following might be true:
1) God couldn't do better
2) God didn't want to do better
3) God did do better and we haven't found it yet (of which all three would question him as a being worthy of worship IMO)
4) People did it for their own reason and there is no god
5) People did it for God and God didn't want to put any more effort into making it 'fool proof'
Likewise, anyone can write down something and say “God downloaded this to my brain, believe what I wrote”.Anyone could say, “God downloaded this to my brain, believe what I say”.
Even WITH the current bible, there's many sects teaching different things from the same bible.There could be easily millions of people who have different own message that they try to make others to believe
We could go on.
Point is, since I'm not all knowing and all powerful, I can't say what would be the best way. It would seem the way God picked (aka the bible) isn't working too well, either.
Could God have done something better? I would expect so. But he didn't so it seems one of the following might be true:
1) God couldn't do better
2) God didn't want to do better
3) God did do better and we haven't found it yet (of which all three would question him as a being worthy of worship IMO)
4) People did it for their own reason and there is no god
5) People did it for God and God didn't want to put any more effort into making it 'fool proof'
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
- 1213
- Savant
- Posts: 11342
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: Finland
- Has thanked: 312 times
- Been thanked: 357 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #38The problem is not the Bible, but people who reject Bible teachings and substitute them with their own doctrines. If all Christians would remain in words of Jesus, they would all agree.
Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32
But, unfortunately it seems many “Christians” rather love their own doctrines than words of Jesus.
- 1213
- Savant
- Posts: 11342
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: Finland
- Has thanked: 312 times
- Been thanked: 357 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #39Difficult to say, in Biblical point of view, death of the body is not the end and soul can still live.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:42 pm ...Well, Yeshua expanded on that two witness teaching, he said if I only witness for myself, my witness is not true (John 5:31). On the other hand, Paul calls himself an apostle who God speaks to, on his own witness, and expects to be heeded as an apostle versus as a false prophet (Matthew 7:13-23). Yet Paul taught that "we" shall not all sleep"/die, yet "we" have all died.
And about Paul’s own testimony, I think it is not necessary to believe it, but, because of what he says, I can believe him. I mean, his teachings are in line with teachings of Jesus and God and can help to understand better, which is why I think it is possible he is speaking the truth.
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3187
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
- Has thanked: 1510 times
- Been thanked: 824 times
Re: Why is the bible needed at all?
Post #40But God made these people. And, if he's concerned, he should intervein and make a correction to the mess he created. But he doesn't seem to be doing that. Think of all the lost souls since the bible was 'printed' and confused!1213 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:38 pmThe problem is not the Bible, but people who reject Bible teachings and substitute them with their own doctrines. If all Christians would remain in words of Jesus, they would all agree.
Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32
But, unfortunately it seems many “Christians” rather love their own doctrines than words of Jesus.
Tragic, I suspect, for a deity that's said to love them and want them to spend eternity with him.
Of course, the response is something akin to 'God provided everyone with what they need to make an informed decision' which is nothing but an excuse for a lackluster God as far as I can see it
Have a great, potentially godless, day!