Is the book of Ruth fiction?

[Difflugia]

I was looking through some old posts to find topics that would make good debate topics, but were never fully explored. One of them is if the biblical book of Ruth is fiction in the sense that the author wrote it as such, perhaps as an extended parable, with the expectation that readers would know and understand it to be fictional?

[Difflugia]

I don’t think there really is anything that supports the idea that is fictional. It is told in a manner that I wouldn’t think means it is meant to be taken as fictional.

Given other positions you've taken in the past, I'm sure you don't. That doesn't address any of the many actual reasons I gave you, though. If you want to be part of the discussion, you'll need to offer more than "nope!"

[Haven]

I was looking through some old posts to find topics that would make good debate topics, but were never fully explored. One of them is if the biblical book of Ruth is fiction in the sense that the author wrote it as such, perhaps as an extended parable, with the expectation that readers would know and understand it to be fictional?

I don’t think there really is anything that supports the idea that is fictional. It is told in a manner that I wouldn’t think means it is meant to be taken as fictional.

For one, the names. They are all words symbolic of the themes of the tale.

[1213]

For one, the names. They are all words symbolic of the themes of the tale.

I think that doesn’t’ work, because there can be many reasons for the names. And, even I have a name that has interesting meaning that someone could later say makes me fictional character.

[Difflugia]

For one, the names. They are all words symbolic of the themes of the tale.

I think that doesn’t’ work, because there can be many reasons for the names.

This is another one of those situations where "possible" doesn't imply "probable" or even "plausible."

Multiple characters have names that fit their roles in the story. Furthermore, those names have negative connotations of the type that very few people would use to name a child (imagine an English-speaker naming a child "Feeble," for example).

And, even I have a name that has interesting meaning that someone could later say makes me fictional character.

That's not the argument, though. Nobody said that the names are markers of fiction because they're interesting, but because they fit the story in a way that would be an "interesting" coincidence for one name, but implausible for at least three (Mahlon, Chilion, Orpah).

The other datum is that chapter 3 has so many Hebrew sex puns mashed together that I think it's nearly impossible to argue that it's coincidence. I'd be shocked if you could find a similar density of Hebrew words with sexual connotations anywhere else in the Bible outside of Song of Songs.

[Clownboat]

For one, the names. They are all words symbolic of the themes of the tale.

I think that doesn’t’ work, because there can be many reasons for the names. And, even I have a name that has interesting meaning that someone could later say makes me fictional character.

You missed the point.
(To try another way)
This reminds me of a story of about a family of mostly misfits.

The eldest son was a thief and his parents had named him Rob Ber.
The daughter was a bit of a drunk, her parents had named her Tipsy.
The youngest brother was often abused by his older siblings. His name was Sufferer, but his friends often referred to him as Victim.

Would parents for one, give their children such names and two, does it really read like nonfiction?

[1213]

...
This reminds me of a story of about a family of mostly misfits.

The eldest son was a thief and his parents had named him Rob Ber.
The daughter was a bit of a drunk, her parents had named her Tipsy.
The youngest brother was often abused by his older siblings. His name was Sufferer, but his friends often referred to him as Victim.

Would parents for one, give their children such names and two, does it really read like nonfiction?

Ok, but what if the meaning for those words came later, after the story and because of the story?

Or what if they are not really meant as their names, but like nicknames?

[1213]

…Multiple characters have names that fit their roles in the story. Furthermore, those names have negative connotations of the type that very few people would use to name a child (imagine an English-speaker naming a child "Feeble," for example).

Is it not possible that the connotations are not developed later, because of that story?

…The other datum is that chapter 3 has so many Hebrew sex puns mashed together that I think it's nearly impossible to argue that it's coincidence…

That is interesting claim. Unfortunately, I don’t understand Hebrew so that I could see is that really true. Difficult to believe that the original writer would have meant that there are such things.

[Difflugia]

…Multiple characters have names that fit their roles in the story. Furthermore, those names have negative connotations of the type that very few people would use to name a child (imagine an English-speaker naming a child "Feeble," for example).

Is it not possible that the connotations are not developed later, because of that story?

Only if Ruth is the oldest book of the Old Testament. It's not.

…The other datum is that chapter 3 has so many Hebrew sex puns mashed together that I think it's nearly impossible to argue that it's coincidence…

That is interesting claim. Unfortunately, I don’t understand Hebrew so that I could see is that really true. Difficult to believe that the original writer would have meant that there are such things.

Why would that be difficult to believe if by your own admission you have no information either way? If you're willing to do even a small amount of work for it, I already told you which words to look up.

[JehovahsWitness]

Multiple characters have names that fit their roles in the story. Furthermore, those names have negative connotations of the type that very few people would use to name a child (imagine an English-speaker naming a child "Feeble," for example).

Many cultures gives names that are descritive of the person and the Hebrews were no exceptions. We do not know if the names were given at birth or later in their lives*, but they were evidently fitting given the boys relatively short lives. The bible is full of descriptive names, not all given at birth and not all complimentary.

* in the same account Naoim changes her name because of her bitter experiences

My own mother's native name translates as "she may live or she may die" She happened to lived but had she not reached puberty, would that have made her a fictional character?

Suggesting the story is fictional based on the presence of sex, death or descriptive names shows a sad disregard for traditional culture as well as for the fundamentals of the human condition itself and makes for an extremely weak argument .





JW

[Haven]

=
Ok, but what if the meaning for those words came later, after the story and because of the story?

Or what if they are not really meant as their names, but like nicknames?

We know this is false, because they appear elsewhere in the Bible, in passages predating the book of Ruth (such as Genesis 2:5). Also, at the time, nicknames would not have been used in literature intended for political or religious purposes, which is what the Book of Ruth likely was. A political tractate, with a message.