The need for faith

[nobspeople]

We're told 'you have to have faith' or 'have faith - it will work out' or any number of claims that speak to the need to have faith.

Outside of salvation (as there's a debate if it's by faith or works or grace or a combination of, that salvation is obtained), why?
Why is faith needed?

Does having faith allow the outcome of a certain event to change? Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?
Give you supernatural abilities? Does faith allow you to breath underwater on your own?
Does faith pay the bills? Does your utility company take 'faith' as payment?
Does faith make you happy or sad? If you're having a good day, does faith come in and make your day terrible?

Why have faith at all? What's the point?

[1213]

We're told 'you have to have faith' or 'have faith - it will work out' or any number of claims that speak to the need to have faith.

Outside of salvation (as there's a debate if it's by faith or works or grace or a combination of, that salvation is obtained), why?
Why is faith needed?

Does having faith allow the outcome of a certain event to change? Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?
...

To me faith means loyalty. By what the Bible tells, people should be righteous and faithful/loyal to God. Eternal life is promised for those who are righteous. And righteous lives by faith, if he rejects God it leads to death.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38

But, why it is important to be loyal to God? If one is loyal to God, he keeps God’s commandments that are basically in “love your neighbor as yourself. If person does so, he doesn’t do anything bad to others. If people would do good and not evil, world would be much better place. And I think that is the reason why faith is important and I think that is also the reason why eternal life is for righteous, they want to do good freely.

[nobspeople]

We're told 'you have to have faith' or 'have faith - it will work out' or any number of claims that speak to the need to have faith.

Outside of salvation (as there's a debate if it's by faith or works or grace or a combination of, that salvation is obtained), why?
Why is faith needed?

Does having faith allow the outcome of a certain event to change? Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?
...

To me faith means loyalty. By what the Bible tells, people should be righteous and faithful/loyal to God. Eternal life is promised for those who are righteous. And righteous lives by faith, if he rejects God it leads to death.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38

But, why it is important to be loyal to God? If one is loyal to God, he keeps God’s commandments that are basically in “love your neighbor as yourself. If person does so, he doesn’t do anything bad to others. If people would do good and not evil, world would be much better place. And I think that is the reason why faith is important and I think that is also the reason why eternal life is for righteous, they want to do good freely.

Thanks for the response.
To clarify, you believe faith is needed to get to heaven and live eternally (not judging)?
Please correct me if that's incorrect.

[Miles]

We're told 'you have to have faith' or 'have faith - it will work out' or any number of claims that speak to the need to have faith.

Outside of salvation (as there's a debate if it's by faith or works or grace or a combination of, that salvation is obtained), why?
Why is faith needed?

Does having faith allow the outcome of a certain event to change? Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?
Give you supernatural abilities? Does faith allow you to breath underwater on your own?
Does faith pay the bills? Does your utility company take 'faith' as payment?
Does faith make you happy or sad? If you're having a good day, does faith come in and make your day terrible?

Why have faith at all? What's the point?

In as much as faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence---if there was evidence there would be no need for faith---it's reasonable to assume an overpowering need is behind its existence, and the only thing I can imagine driving such an excuse is the need for comfort. When nothing else will do one can always imagine (unconsciously of course) that faith is there to help.

After all, what can't be said to exist by faith? Nothing! Anything and everything can be said to exist by faith. So in as much as it lacks any truth component its value only exists as an imagined potential.




.

[1213]

Thanks for the response.
To clarify, you believe faith is needed to get to heaven and live eternally (not judging)?
Please correct me if that's incorrect.

I believe person needs to be righteous to get the eternal life, as said in the scriptures in my previous post. And if person is righteous, he is loyal (faithful) to God. No action is required, only righteousness. And righteousness is like right understanding, wisdom of the just. When person is righteous, he understands what is good and right and wants freely that. It leads to good works and also to faithfulness. Righteous person produces righteous “fruit” and by “fruits” we can know who is righteous. But actions are only the result, not the cause. And that is why the important thing is what kind of person one is. It determines the fruits and if the fruits are good, the person is suitable for eternal life. Unrighteous are not, they would make it eternal suffering for all, because the want bad things.

[nobspeople]

Thanks for the response.
To clarify, you believe faith is needed to get to heaven and live eternally (not judging)?
Please correct me if that's incorrect.

I believe person needs to be righteous to get the eternal life, as said in the scriptures in my previous post. And if person is righteous, he is loyal (faithful) to God. No action is required, only righteousness. And righteousness is like right understanding, wisdom of the just. When person is righteous, he understands what is good and right and wants freely that. It leads to good works and also to faithfulness. Righteous person produces righteous “fruit” and by “fruits” we can know who is righteous. But actions are only the result, not the cause. And that is why the important thing is what kind of person one is. It determines the fruits and if the fruits are good, the person is suitable for eternal life. Unrighteous are not, they would make it eternal suffering for all, because the want bad things.

A lot of talk about a person being righteous, but little to none on how to become righteous.
I also don't believe an 'unrighteous person' wants bad things. Saying that shows a lack of understanding of people who aren't righteous - almost as if you're preaching from your high mountain top.

[2ndpillar2]

We're told 'you have to have faith' or 'have faith - it will work out' or any number of claims that speak to the need to have faith.

Outside of salvation (as there's a debate if it's by faith or works or grace or a combination of, that salvation is obtained), why?
Why is faith needed?

Does having faith allow the outcome of a certain event to change? Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?
Give you supernatural abilities? Does faith allow you to breath underwater on your own?
Does faith pay the bills? Does your utility company take 'faith' as payment?
Does faith make you happy or sad? If you're having a good day, does faith come in and make your day terrible?

Why have faith at all? What's the point?

As James says, "Faith" without "works" is dead. And what faith is that, that "God is one" (James 2:19). Well the general belief of "Christians" is that God is three. They have the wrong faith, and do not understand what "good fruits"/works means. Eve had "faith" in the serpent, yet the serpent lied to Eve and she died. As for salvation, the false prophet Paul told his followers that "we shall not sleep/die", well, they are all dead. None of them were saved from death. As for the true meaning of "salvation", such as found in Joel 2:32, apparently those who call on the name of the Lord will be "delivered"/saved, yet "Christians" seem to not know the name of the Lord, so their chances of escape would be limited. At that time, it will be the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem which will be restored (Joel 3:1-2), and the nations/Gentiles will be under judgment.

[JehovahsWitness]

Why is faith needed?

Biblically, faith is needed because without it it is impossible to please God well.

... Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?

Yes I believe so.




JW

[Miles]

Why is faith needed?

Biblically, faith is needed because without it it is impossible to please God well.

Got any idea why god has this rather obsessive egocentric need? "Please me! Please me! Please me!"? Truthfully, it sounds like a character flaw to me.

... Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?

Yes I believe so.

And those who have never heard of his demands or have failed to be convinced of them, what of them? "Off with their heads"?



.

[bluegreenearth]

To me faith means loyalty. By what the Bible tells, people should be righteous and faithful/loyal to God. Eternal life is promised for those who are righteous. And righteous lives by faith, if he rejects God it leads to death.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38

But, why it is important to be loyal to God? If one is loyal to God, he keeps God’s commandments that are basically in “love your neighbor as yourself. If person does so, he doesn’t do anything bad to others. If people would do good and not evil, world would be much better place. And I think that is the reason why faith is important and I think that is also the reason why eternal life is for righteous, they want to do good freely.

Could someone be loyal to a belief in a proposed god regardless of whether that god exists in reality or not?

If loyalty to a belief in a proposed god produces people who are righteous and do good, does that function to demonstrate the existence of the proposed god?

Is it possible for people who were never made aware of the proposition that a god commanded them to love their neighbours as they love themselves to arrive at this conclusion through trial and error over time?

Which is more righteous, for people to love their neighbours as they love themselves because they believe this behaviour was commanded by a god who will reward them with eternal life or for people to love their neighbours as they love themselves because they've learned this behaviour maximizes well-being and minimizes unnecessary harm for themselves and their neighbours regardless of whether a god exists to reward them or not?