The need for faith

[nobspeople]

We're told 'you have to have faith' or 'have faith - it will work out' or any number of claims that speak to the need to have faith.

Outside of salvation (as there's a debate if it's by faith or works or grace or a combination of, that salvation is obtained), why?
Why is faith needed?

Does having faith allow the outcome of a certain event to change? Does God favor those that have faith and protect or grant them a different outcome than those without faith?
Give you supernatural abilities? Does faith allow you to breath underwater on your own?
Does faith pay the bills? Does your utility company take 'faith' as payment?
Does faith make you happy or sad? If you're having a good day, does faith come in and make your day terrible?

Why have faith at all? What's the point?

[Dimmesdale]

Of course, if someone has faith in a deity, but uses that for nefarious ends (such as desiring to obtain weapons to massacre people) then I can very well imagine the true God putting stumblingblocks to make that person's faith of no effect.

Faith can inspire a person to do anything. It doesn't matter which deity is involved or even if it doesn't involve a deity at all.

Wrong. That would not be true faith, but a form of credulity or wishful thinking. Those things do not qualify as authentic faith in my book, or most other (serious) theists' books.....

There is a world of difference between the balanced and equipoised faith of a sincere spiritual practitioner, and the risky, reckless and in some cases unhinged decisions of a mentally unstable or otherwise damaged person. You can see it in their lifestyles. Most high ranking Christians for example live very consistent, sober and honorable lives. Most people who live in mental hospitals do not have such control over their lives because they lack that authentic faith or other guiding influences .

The proof is in the character and way of life of people when it comes to faith. It shows it is not a cheap thing.

[Tcg]

Most people who live in mental hospitals do not have such control over their lives because they lack that authentic faith or other guiding influences .

What is your experience of people who live in mental hospitals?

On what do you base your conclusion that they lack authentic faith?


Tcg

[Dimmesdale]

Most people who live in mental hospitals do not have such control over their lives because they lack that authentic faith or other guiding influences .

What is your experience of people who live in mental hospitals?

I've been there several times. I can definitely say there are people there who have little or no hope, because they lack faith. No faith generally equals no hope.

On what do you base your conclusion that they lack authentic faith?

Tcg

Because people who are confused and illusioned do not have much light in their lives. Faith is a great light bringer. It reveals truth. Mental illness and other such maladies obscure truth, and shackle a person instead of liberating them.

[Tcg]

Most people who live in mental hospitals do not have such control over their lives because they lack that authentic faith or other guiding influences .

What is your experience of people who live in mental hospitals?

I've been there several times.

How many times have you discussed faith with people there?

On what do you base your conclusion that they lack authentic faith?

Tcg

Because people who are confused and illusioned do not have much light in their lives. Faith is a great light bringer. It reveals truth. Mental illness and other such maladies obscure truth, and shackle a person instead of liberating them.

This is an interesting string of unsupported assertions, unfortunately it doesn't support your conclusion or your rather simplistic understanding of mental health issues.


Tcg

[Dimmesdale]

Most people who live in mental hospitals do not have such control over their lives because they lack that authentic faith or other guiding influences .

What is your experience of people who live in mental hospitals?

I've been there several times.

How many times have you discussed faith with people there?

On what do you base your conclusion that they lack authentic faith?

Tcg

Because people who are confused and illusioned do not have much light in their lives. Faith is a great light bringer. It reveals truth. Mental illness and other such maladies obscure truth, and shackle a person instead of liberating them.

This is an interesting string of unsupported assertions, unfortunately they don't support your conclusion or your rather simplistic understanding of mental health issues.


Tcg

I am not in any way saying that lack of faith exhausts the nature of mental illness, or, more specifically, unhinged decisions, which are part and parcel of having an incomplete mindset (that can only be completed with the addition of faith).

To put it otherwise, to lack faith is to be partially insane. Or to partake of irrationality.

[Tcg]

To put it otherwise, to lack faith is to be partially insane. Or to partake of irrationality.

You can put it anyway you like. Now that you've chosen one, all you have to do is provide verifiable evidence that your assertion is true.


Tcg

[brunumb]

Wrong. That would not be true faith, but a form of credulity or wishful thinking. Those things do not qualify as authentic faith in my book, or most other (serious) theists' books.....

What's with the "true" faith. Faith is faith. Even if it is not like the religious faith that you have in your alleged true god, it is still faith. If there is no compelling evidence for a belief, then any faith in it is nothing more than credulity or wishful thinking. Faith in the Bible is a prime contender.

[Dimmesdale]

To put it otherwise, to lack faith is to be partially insane. Or to partake of irrationality.

You can put it anyway you like. Now that you've chosen one, all you have to do is provide verifiable evidence that your assertion is true.


Tcg

I have not said all mental health illnesses are due to lack of faith.

I am saying that lack of faith is irrational, and therefore relates with mental health crises, which often involve irrational worldviews.

So no, I don't.

[brunumb]

Faith is a great light bringer. It reveals truth.

Faith can be a source of hope, but it does not necessarily reveal any truth. Faith allows one to believe in something that is completely false as easily as something that is true.

[brunumb]

To put it otherwise, to lack faith is to be partially insane. Or to partake of irrationality.

The exact same thing can be said of faith.