Are the stars falling from heaven?

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Are the stars falling from heaven?

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Is the pope, the supposed holder of the keys of David, on his way of being like a peg driven into a wall giving way, and all who hang onto him, being cut off? (Isaiah 22:15-25) The cardinal who represents the Vatican in the US gave an interview whereas he told how the pope has promoted pedophile cardinals among the pedophile mafia of the Vatican , after the pope had vowed to have zero tolerance for pedophiles. He spoke of the pedophile Vatican mafia's ties with Biden, Clinton, the Democrat party etc. Apparently US cardinals are asking for the pope to resign. I think the pope will "fall", but I don't see him resigning. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +to+resign

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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #21

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #21]

As for the pope falling from heaven, that would refer to the "devil" and his angels being thrown out of heaven Revelation 12:7-12:
Revelation 12: 7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Yes, the Adversary (the one called 'satan') was cast out of heaven along with his angels.
Per Isaiah 22:22, "the Lord God of hosts" says (Is 22:15), that with respect to Eliakim, the stand in for the heir of Peter (Shebna), who was put in charge of the "royal household"/church, that "I will set the key of the house of David on his shoulder "when he opens no one will shut".
and I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven", the quote Yeshua applied to Peter/petros in Matthew 16:18-19.


The RCC claims that Christ gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven to just Peter (and then to the supposed heir of Peter), but Christ does not teach that, so why believe it?

The truth is that Christ gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven to more than just Peter.

Speaking to Peter, but with the rest of the apostles present:

"...I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Note what those keys DO (in the bold); they bind and loosen.

Then later speaking to His disciples and not just to Peter, Christ again states:

“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven."

Then Christ speaks again to the apostles (Peter included, but not JUST Peter) when He breathes holy spirit upon them:

"Receive holy spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld."

Is that not also loosing and binding?

We can also know that no single apostle was elevated above the other apostles. All twelve apostles make up the foundation (Rev 21:14) that is built upon Christ, the Rock (Matt 7: 24, 25; Mark 12: 1-11; 1 Corinth 10:4; 1Peter 2:6). All twelve apostles are brothers, with one Teacher (Christ) and one Father (God, in heaven).

As the claimed heir of Peter, the pope claims to be god on earth, and the holder of the key of David, and who tried during the the term of office of Obama power, to obtain jurisdiction over the citadel of David in Jerusalem for which he claims to hold the key. The pope considers himself the father, teacher, and leader of the church, which you have said, is antithetical to the teachings of Yeshua.


So then we know to dismiss his claims as false.
The kingdom of heaven in the physical sense is to be ruled by King David (Ezekiel 37:24).
This is representative of Christ.
The term Pontiff comes from the term Pontifex Maximus, the leaders of the pagan church,
I think it is the other way around (Pontifex Maximus being a pontiff, but the highest pontiff in the roman state religion), but yes, these are terms from the roman state religion.

As for Peter, Yeshua quoted Zechariah 13:7 in Matthew 26:31, "strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered".. The sheep remain scattered and unhealed, and unfed.

I'm not sure if I am misunderstanding you, but Christ is the Shepherd who was struck here at Matt 26:31.

Then [Jesus] told them, This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:

“‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’

But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”

Peter replied, “Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.

Truly I tell you, [Jesus] answered,this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”

But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.

And then, after Christ was arrested, the disciples fled, just as Christ said they would (verse 56).


**

You will all fall away, for it is written: ‘I will strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.’ But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.” Mark 14:27

“A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me." John 16:32


They did not remain scattered, but on the night Christ was arrested, they scattered, deserted Him, left Him alone (though His Father was always with Him, so He was never alone). And His sheep - who come to Him when He calls them- do not remain unfed or unhealed or even scattered. Because Christ - the Good shepherd - calls and gathers His sheep to Himself (John 10:11-16; 27-29). He feeds and heals His sheep.


Their fodder remains to be mostly the leaven of the Pharisees of Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy is the leaven of the Pharisees, yes.
As for partaking of the water of life, that road was laid out in Matthew 3, whereas one must first repent, confess their sins/lawlessness, such as holding on to the false gospel of grace, and produce good fruit in line with their repentance.
Grace is not false, though perhaps how some define or use it might be incorrect.
As for religious organizations, the false prophet Paul set up an institution of prophets, teachers, apostles, etc. (Ephesians 4:11)
Paul (a disciple of Christ) spoke of prophets, teachers, apostles, etc, but I am not sure it is right to say that he set institutions up. Instead, later men may have done so, claiming to be acting upon Paul's words. Perhaps they misunderstood his words. Perhaps Paul misunderstood something.

Regardless, if we are seeking Christ, if we are His sheep, if we belong to Him - then we are to listen to Christ.

As for Yeshua saying come to me to drink, the obvious place people go to drink is the NT,
The "place" (actually a person) to come and drink from is Christ Jaheshua, Himself. The Life. The living and breathing Word of God. That is what He said to do after all, "Come to ME... and drink."

He did not say 'come and drink from the scriptures' or 'come and drink from the NT' (nothing in the NT had even yet been written, and where would all the people have drank from before the NT existed?) Christ is the LIFE - and the water that He (the Rock) pours out is holy spirit (the water of Life).


Gonna stop there for now.


Peace again to you 2ndPillar!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #22

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

Return message to Tam:

As for Paul being a "disciple of Christ"/apostle, that would be according to Paul. Yeshua's message was that if I witness for myself, my witness is not true (John 5:31) Which is to say you shouldn't believe what Paul says. Was Paul a chosen "shepherd"? According to Zechariah 11, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Matthew 27:9-10) & (Zech 11:13) were all chosen as so called shepherds (Ezekiel 34) for a particular reason. As for Peter falling away, he also told Yeshua he would feed, care and tend the sheep (John 21:15-16). The 3rd "worthless" shepherd of Zechariah 11:16-17, Peter, was said to have not have fed, cared and tended the sheep, in the same ratio as he said he would not deny Yeshua. As for the Word of God, the Scriptures, the living water, that entails the Law and the prophets, it did not entail the canon of the Roman Church, which is mostly filled by the leaven of the Pharisee. The title of Pontifex Maximus was originally given to the head pagan priest, but after Julius Caesar took the title, and became keeper of the gods and the calendar, the following Augustus Caesars walked in his foot prints, and were both gods and Pontifex Maximus, the position that allowed Constantine to convene his Council of Nicaea. It wasn't until the 5th century that the title was supposedly passed to Pope Damascus. The present popes consider themselves God on Earth, the 2nd head of the supposed Trinity, which was put in place by Constantine the Great at his Council of Nicaea. Constantine is the beast with two horns like a lamb, and those lamb like/Christ like horns, Peter and Paul, were glorified by Constantine by him building a basilica for each. If one carries the mark of the beast, who deceived those who dwell on the earth (Revelation 13:14), then one must drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Rev 14:10). It is best that one separates the chaff from the wheat when it comes to what God says or does not say. Or as is stated in Matthew 13, separate the tare seed of the devil from the wheat seed of the son of man. Keep in mind that at the "end of the age" the angels will gather out the lawless and the "stumbling blocks" (Matthew 13:41), and in Matthew 16:23, Yeshua calls Peter, both a "stumbling block" to me, and "Satan". Apparently, we are at the "end of the age".

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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #23

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:16 pm Return message to Tam:

As for Paul being a "disciple of Christ"/apostle, that would be according to Paul. Yeshua's message was that if I witness for myself, my witness is not true (John 5:31) Which is to say you shouldn't believe what Paul says. Was Paul a chosen "shepherd"? According to Zechariah 11, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Matthew 27:9-10) & (Zech 11:13) were all chosen as so called shepherds (Ezekiel 34) for a particular reason. As for Peter falling away, he also told Yeshua he would feed, care and tend the sheep (John 21:15-16). The 3rd "worthless" shepherd of Zechariah 11:16-17, Peter, was said to have not have fed, cared and tended the sheep, in the same ratio as he said he would not deny Yeshua.


I do not see a reason to connect those prophecies about shepherds to Peter or Paul or even Judas.

For us (who are in Christ, who are His sheep), there is one Shepherd:

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16

One flock. One Shepherd.

See also Ezekiel 34:23, where God appoints ONE Shepherd.

**

Just because some men claim that their religion is built upon Peter (like the RCC), does not mean that Peter (or Christ) had anything to do with that.


As for the Word of God, the Scriptures, the living water, that entails the Law and the prophets, it did not entail the canon of the Roman Church, which is mostly filled by the leaven of the Pharisee.


The Word of God is Christ, the living water that flows from Him is holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH).

(As for the gospel accounts and letters written by Paul, John, James, Peter, etc, these may have been chosen by people connected to the RCC to be included in "canon", but they were not actually written by the RCC. Of course even with these the words of Christ come first, and we should be listening to Him, holding all things up to Him to see if they are true; remaining in His word.)


and in Matthew 16:23, Yeshua calls Peter, both a "stumbling block" to me, and "Satan".
No, Christ calls Satan a stumbling block to Him. Christ was not calling Peter, Satan. Christ was directly rebuking Satan (who was using Peter at that moment, to try and stumble Christ).

**

Peter is one of the Twelve apostles who makes up the foundation in the wall of the city (the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ).

The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev 21:14


(Judas was replaced with Mathias, because Judas abandoned his place. Acts 1:20-26. Peter was a man, and could make mistakes as all men can, but Peter was chosen/anointed by Christ and he did not abandon his place).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #24

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

tam wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:03 pm Peace to you,
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:16 pm Return message to Tam:

As for Paul being a "disciple of Christ"/apostle, that would be according to Paul. Yeshua's message was that if I witness for myself, my witness is not true (John 5:31) Which is to say you shouldn't believe what Paul says. Was Paul a chosen "shepherd"? According to Zechariah 11, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Matthew 27:9-10) & (Zech 11:13) were all chosen as so called shepherds (Ezekiel 34) for a particular reason. As for Peter falling away, he also told Yeshua he would feed, care and tend the sheep (John 21:15-16). The 3rd "worthless" shepherd of Zechariah 11:16-17, Peter, was said to have not have fed, cared and tended the sheep, in the same ratio as he said he would not deny Yeshua.


I do not see a reason to connect those prophecies about shepherds to Peter or Paul or even Judas.

For us (who are in Christ, who are His sheep), there is one Shepherd:

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16

One flock. One Shepherd.

See also Ezekiel 34:23, where God appoints ONE Shepherd.

**

Just because some men claim that their religion is built upon Peter (like the RCC), does not mean that Peter (or Christ) had anything to do with that.


As for the Word of God, the Scriptures, the living water, that entails the Law and the prophets, it did not entail the canon of the Roman Church, which is mostly filled by the leaven of the Pharisee.


The Word of God is Christ, the living water that flows from Him is holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH).

(As for the gospel accounts and letters written by Paul, John, James, Peter, etc, these may have been chosen by people connected to the RCC to be included in "canon", but they were not actually written by the RCC. Of course even with these the words of Christ come first, and we should be listening to Him, holding all things up to Him to see if they are true; remaining in His word.)




and in Matthew 16:23, Yeshua calls Peter, both a "stumbling block" to me, and "Satan".
No, Christ calls Satan a stumbling block to Him. Christ was not calling Peter, Satan. Christ was directly rebuking Satan (who was using Peter at that moment, to try and stumble Christ).

**

Peter is one of the Twelve apostles who makes up the foundation in the wall of the city (the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ).

The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev 21:14


(Judas was replaced with Mathias, because Judas abandoned his place. Acts 1:20-26. Peter was a man, and could make mistakes as all men can, but Peter was chosen/anointed by Christ and he did not abandon his place).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Matthew 27:9-10 specifically quotes from Zechariah 11:11-13 with respect to Judas Iscariot. Zechariah 11 is about 3 shepherds chosen by the "Lord my God" to fail, and not feed, care or tend the sheep (Zechariah 11:16).
As for the "one shepherd" of Ezekiel 34:23, that would be David, after "My flock is delivered" and "no longer be a prey", and the "fat shepherds" are judged and destroyed (Ez 34:16). This happens according to Ezekiel 37 after the stick of Judah and the stick of Joseph (the lost 10 tribes) become one under the leadership of David on the land I gave to Jacob, and "all the nations/Gentiles will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel/Jacob, when My sanctuary is in their midst. Right now only Judah is on the land given to Jacob, and Joseph (the house of Israel) remains "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:19).
Yeshua told Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven etc." the same message the Lord gave to Shebna, the precursor of Peter in Isaiah in 22. Peter was set up to fulfill the Law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17)
Fulfilling of the Law and the prophets, the Word of God, the Spirit of God, is Yeshua, and it has not been fulfilled at this time. The prophets and the Law have not been fulfilled.
Both Peter and Judas were chosen by Yeshua. They were both weak men, unlike John the Baptist, and Peter was tossed into a foreign country and was deposed from his office (Isaiah 22:15-20). Apparently both Peter and Judas were hung from a tree into the night, which shows they were both accursed. Peter did nothing mentionable while alive except "shame your master's house" (Isaiah 22:18), and his heir, Eliakim, the pope, will "fall" and bring down all who hang onto him (Isaiah 22:25). This is all in lock step with the fulfilling of the prophets.
Yeshua called Peter "Satan" because Satan ruled both Peter and Paul (2Cor 12:7) because they set their minds on man's interest, and not God's.

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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #25

Post by JehovahsWitness »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:24 am Peter did nothing mentionable while alive except "shame your master's house"...
So do you believe it was different Peter that was visted by a resurrected Jesus, saved from death by an angel and performed several miracles after his denial?



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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #26

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JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:28 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:24 am Peter did nothing mentionable while alive except "shame your master's house"...
So do you believe it was different Peter that was visted by a resurrected Jesus, saved from death by an angel and performed several miracles after his denial?

JW
I suppose you are referring to John 21, in which John pointed out how Peter's role paralleled the role of the "worthless shepherd" called "cords" who would not feed, care or tend the sheep, and who according to Acts 15, "leaves the flock" (Zechariah 11:17). I don't know what your reference is to Peter being saved from death by an angel, when apparently Peter died by supposedly being hung from a tree/pole into the night. As for "several miracles", Yeshua told Peter that he wasn't able to heal the epilectic because of his lack of faith (Matthew 17:20). As for the ramblings of an unknown author of Acts, where is your second witness of this 3rd party witness? (Matthew 18:16)

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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

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2ndpillar2 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:52 am As for the ramblings of an unknown author of Acts, where is your second witness of this 3rd party witness? (Matthew 18:16)
How many of the 66 books in the bible canon should we accept as inspired of God? 65 (all of them minus Acts)? 63 (all of them except the book of Acts AND the two letters of Peter?) Are there some gospels we should reject ? Johns gospel perhaps...?

In short how many books in your bible?





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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #28

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Peace to you,
2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:24 am
tam wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:03 pm Peace to you,
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:16 pm Return message to Tam:

As for Paul being a "disciple of Christ"/apostle, that would be according to Paul. Yeshua's message was that if I witness for myself, my witness is not true (John 5:31) Which is to say you shouldn't believe what Paul says. Was Paul a chosen "shepherd"? According to Zechariah 11, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Matthew 27:9-10) & (Zech 11:13) were all chosen as so called shepherds (Ezekiel 34) for a particular reason. As for Peter falling away, he also told Yeshua he would feed, care and tend the sheep (John 21:15-16). The 3rd "worthless" shepherd of Zechariah 11:16-17, Peter, was said to have not have fed, cared and tended the sheep, in the same ratio as he said he would not deny Yeshua.


I do not see a reason to connect those prophecies about shepherds to Peter or Paul or even Judas.

For us (who are in Christ, who are His sheep), there is one Shepherd:

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16

One flock. One Shepherd.

See also Ezekiel 34:23, where God appoints ONE Shepherd.

**

Just because some men claim that their religion is built upon Peter (like the RCC), does not mean that Peter (or Christ) had anything to do with that.


As for the Word of God, the Scriptures, the living water, that entails the Law and the prophets, it did not entail the canon of the Roman Church, which is mostly filled by the leaven of the Pharisee.


The Word of God is Christ, the living water that flows from Him is holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH).

(As for the gospel accounts and letters written by Paul, John, James, Peter, etc, these may have been chosen by people connected to the RCC to be included in "canon", but they were not actually written by the RCC. Of course even with these the words of Christ come first, and we should be listening to Him, holding all things up to Him to see if they are true; remaining in His word.)




and in Matthew 16:23, Yeshua calls Peter, both a "stumbling block" to me, and "Satan".
No, Christ calls Satan a stumbling block to Him. Christ was not calling Peter, Satan. Christ was directly rebuking Satan (who was using Peter at that moment, to try and stumble Christ).

**

Peter is one of the Twelve apostles who makes up the foundation in the wall of the city (the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ).

The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev 21:14


(Judas was replaced with Mathias, because Judas abandoned his place. Acts 1:20-26. Peter was a man, and could make mistakes as all men can, but Peter was chosen/anointed by Christ and he did not abandon his place).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Matthew 27:9-10 specifically quotes from Zechariah 11:11-13 with respect to Judas Iscariot.
With respect to the 30 silver coins as being the price set upon Christ, and throwing those coins to the potter, which involves Judas Iscariot... but there is still no connection to Judas Iscariot and '3 worthless shepherds'.
Zechariah 11 is about 3 shepherds chosen by the "Lord my God" to fail, and not feed, care or tend the sheep (Zechariah 11:16).
Zechariah 11:16 does not mention 3 shepherds. I also see no reason to connect that to Judas (or Peter or Paul).
As for the "one shepherd" of Ezekiel 34:23, that would be David, after "My flock is delivered" and "no longer be a prey", and the "fat shepherds" are judged and destroyed (Ez 34:16).
The One Shepherd is Christ. Because that is what Christ teaches us, and Christ is the Truth, the One to whom God told us to listen.

Personal interpretation (yours or mine or from someone else) cannot override what Christ teaches.

He is the Good Shepherd.

He said that there will be one flock with one shepherd, and He is the Shepherd who calls His sheep, and whose voice the sheep listen to and follow.
Yeshua told Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven etc." the same message the Lord gave to Shebna, the precursor of Peter in Isaiah in 22. Peter was set up to fulfill the Law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17)
1 - Isaiah 22 is not referring to Peter. I responded to this in a previous post.

2 - Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets. Not Peter. Christ is speaking at Matthew 5:17, and He is speaking of Himself:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Fulfilling of the Law and the prophets, the Word of God, the Spirit of God, is Yeshua, and it has not been fulfilled at this time. The prophets and the Law have not been fulfilled.


Christ came to fulfill the law and the prophets, He said that is what He came to do, and so that is what He did.
Both Peter and Judas were chosen by Yeshua.


As were the other ten apostles.
They were both weak men, unlike John the Baptist, and Peter was tossed into a foreign country and was deposed from his office (Isaiah 22:15-20).


Isaiah 22 is not referring to Peter.

Plus, you seem to be interpreting Isaiah 22 as referring to Peter as the one who is deposed from his office, and then after that given the keys to the house of David. That does not make sense. One is deposed (Isaiah 22:15-20), then one is appointed in his place (Isaiah 22:20-21). The same person cannot be both of these people.

You're connecting scriptures all over the place that cannot be connected, when all you really need to do if you want to know the truth is to listen to CHRIST. He is the Truth, and the One to whom God said to listen.
Apparently both Peter and Judas were hung from a tree into the night, which shows they were both accursed.


A - it is being hung on a tree that is the curse, not whether it goes into the night or not.

If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, and he is executed, and you hang his body on a tree, 23you must not leave the body on the tree overnight, but you must be sure to bury him that day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse. Deuteronomy 21:22-23

"For it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." Galatians 3:13

B - Christ was also hung on a tree (crucified on the pole). He suffered this so that He would cover the sins of even those who had been executed in this manner. But He was not at fault, He did nothing wrong, He was sacrificing Himself, laying down His life for others. So just because someone is 'hung on a tree' does not mean that they were guilty of what they'd been executed for.

C - Judas hung himself. Whatever happened with Peter, we do not know. But even if he had been executed in that manner (hung on a tree, crucified), it would not mean that he had done anything deserving of that execution. Because Christ did not deserve the execution He received.

Peter did nothing mentionable while alive except "shame your master's house" (Isaiah 22:18), and his heir, Eliakim, the pope, will "fall" and bring down all who hang onto him (Isaiah 22:25). This is all in lock step with the fulfilling of the prophets.
No, this is a mishmash of scriptures and interpretations being connected even when it is clear that some of these connections and interpretations contradict Christ's own words. It is also giving credit to the RCC and their claims. If the RCC is false, then why are you listening to them when they claim that the Bishop of Rome (the 'pope') is the heir of Peter? What makes you think they are not just using the name of "Peter" to give themselves a (false) appearance of authority?

(Though what would it matter of someone was an heir of Peter? Peter is not Christ. The Church does not belong to Peter or his heirs. The Church is not built upon Peter or his heirs. And the twelve apostles were equal, brothers, with Christ as their ONE Master, their ONE Teacher. Peter was not elevated above the rest of the apostles.)
Yeshua called Peter "Satan" because Satan ruled both Peter and Paul (2Cor 12:7) because they set their minds on man's interest, and not God's.
Christ did not call Peter "Satan" (as stated above). And just because Paul said that he had been given a 'thorn' in his flesh, a messenger of Satan, does not mean that Satan was ruling him, instead of just tormenting him. Didn't Satan torment Job by taking away Job's children, property and health? Does that mean Satan ruled Job?



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #29

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

tam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:33 pm Peace to you,
2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:24 am
tam wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:03 pm Peace to you,
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:16 pm Return message to Tam:

As for Paul being a "disciple of Christ"/apostle, that would be according to Paul. Yeshua's message was that if I witness for myself, my witness is not true (John 5:31) Which is to say you shouldn't believe what Paul says. Was Paul a chosen "shepherd"? According to Zechariah 11, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Matthew 27:9-10) & (Zech 11:13) were all chosen as so called shepherds (Ezekiel 34) for a particular reason. As for Peter falling away, he also told Yeshua he would feed, care and tend the sheep (John 21:15-16). The 3rd "worthless" shepherd of Zechariah 11:16-17, Peter, was said to have not have fed, cared and tended the sheep, in the same ratio as he said he would not deny Yeshua.


I do not see a reason to connect those prophecies about shepherds to Peter or Paul or even Judas.

For us (who are in Christ, who are His sheep), there is one Shepherd:

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16

One flock. One Shepherd.

See also Ezekiel 34:23, where God appoints ONE Shepherd.

**

Just because some men claim that their religion is built upon Peter (like the RCC), does not mean that Peter (or Christ) had anything to do with that.


As for the Word of God, the Scriptures, the living water, that entails the Law and the prophets, it did not entail the canon of the Roman Church, which is mostly filled by the leaven of the Pharisee.


The Word of God is Christ, the living water that flows from Him is holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH).

(As for the gospel accounts and letters written by Paul, John, James, Peter, etc, these may have been chosen by people connected to the RCC to be included in "canon", but they were not actually written by the RCC. Of course even with these the words of Christ come first, and we should be listening to Him, holding all things up to Him to see if they are true; remaining in His word.)




and in Matthew 16:23, Yeshua calls Peter, both a "stumbling block" to me, and "Satan".
No, Christ calls Satan a stumbling block to Him. Christ was not calling Peter, Satan. Christ was directly rebuking Satan (who was using Peter at that moment, to try and stumble Christ).

**

Peter is one of the Twelve apostles who makes up the foundation in the wall of the city (the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ).

The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev 21:14


(Judas was replaced with Mathias, because Judas abandoned his place. Acts 1:20-26. Peter was a man, and could make mistakes as all men can, but Peter was chosen/anointed by Christ and he did not abandon his place).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Matthew 27:9-10 specifically quotes from Zechariah 11:11-13 with respect to Judas Iscariot.
With respect to the 30 silver coins as being the price set upon Christ, and throwing those coins to the potter, which involves Judas Iscariot... but there is still no connection to Judas Iscariot and '3 worthless shepherds'.
Zechariah 11 is about 3 shepherds chosen by the "Lord my God" to fail, and not feed, care or tend the sheep (Zechariah 11:16).
Zechariah 11:16 does not mention 3 shepherds. I also see no reason to connect that to Judas (or Peter or Paul).
As for the "one shepherd" of Ezekiel 34:23, that would be David, after "My flock is delivered" and "no longer be a prey", and the "fat shepherds" are judged and destroyed (Ez 34:16).
The One Shepherd is Christ. Because that is what Christ teaches us, and Christ is the Truth, the One to whom God told us to listen.

Personal interpretation (yours or mine or from someone else) cannot override what Christ teaches.

He is the Good Shepherd.

He said that there will be one flock with one shepherd, and He is the Shepherd who calls His sheep, and whose voice the sheep listen to and follow.
Yeshua told Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven etc." the same message the Lord gave to Shebna, the precursor of Peter in Isaiah in 22. Peter was set up to fulfill the Law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17)
1 - Isaiah 22 is not referring to Peter. I responded to this in a previous post.

2 - Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets. Not Peter. Christ is speaking at Matthew 5:17, and He is speaking of Himself:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Fulfilling of the Law and the prophets, the Word of God, the Spirit of God, is Yeshua, and it has not been fulfilled at this time. The prophets and the Law have not been fulfilled.


Christ came to fulfill the law and the prophets, He said that is what He came to do, and so that is what He did.
Both Peter and Judas were chosen by Yeshua.


As were the other ten apostles.
They were both weak men, unlike John the Baptist, and Peter was tossed into a foreign country and was deposed from his office (Isaiah 22:15-20).


Isaiah 22 is not referring to Peter.

Plus, you seem to be interpreting Isaiah 22 as referring to Peter as the one who is deposed from his office, and then after that given the keys to the house of David. That does not make sense. One is deposed (Isaiah 22:15-20), then one is appointed in his place (Isaiah 22:20-21). The same person cannot be both of these people.

You're connecting scriptures all over the place that cannot be connected, when all you really need to do if you want to know the truth is to listen to CHRIST. He is the Truth, and the One to whom God said to listen.
Apparently both Peter and Judas were hung from a tree into the night, which shows they were both accursed.


A - it is being hung on a tree that is the curse, not whether it goes into the night or not.

If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, and he is executed, and you hang his body on a tree, 23you must not leave the body on the tree overnight, but you must be sure to bury him that day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse. Deuteronomy 21:22-23

"For it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." Galatians 3:13

B - Christ was also hung on a tree (crucified on the pole). He suffered this so that He would cover the sins of even those who had been executed in this manner. But He was not at fault, He did nothing wrong, He was sacrificing Himself, laying down His life for others. So just because someone is 'hung on a tree' does not mean that they were guilty of what they'd been executed for.

C - Judas hung himself. Whatever happened with Peter, we do not know. But even if he had been executed in that manner (hung on a tree, crucified), it would not mean that he had done anything deserving of that execution. Because Christ did not deserve the execution He received.

Peter did nothing mentionable while alive except "shame your master's house" (Isaiah 22:18), and his heir, Eliakim, the pope, will "fall" and bring down all who hang onto him (Isaiah 22:25). This is all in lock step with the fulfilling of the prophets.
No, this is a mishmash of scriptures and interpretations being connected even when it is clear that some of these connections and interpretations contradict Christ's own words. It is also giving credit to the RCC and their claims. If the RCC is false, then why are you listening to them when they claim that the Bishop of Rome (the 'pope') is the heir of Peter? What makes you think they are not just using the name of "Peter" to give themselves a (false) appearance of authority?

(Though what would it matter of someone was an heir of Peter? Peter is not Christ. The Church does not belong to Peter or his heirs. The Church is not built upon Peter or his heirs. And the twelve apostles were equal, brothers, with Christ as their ONE Master, their ONE Teacher. Peter was not elevated above the rest of the apostles.)
Yeshua called Peter "Satan" because Satan ruled both Peter and Paul (2Cor 12:7) because they set their minds on man's interest, and not God's.
Christ did not call Peter "Satan" (as stated above). And just because Paul said that he had been given a 'thorn' in his flesh, a messenger of Satan, does not mean that Satan was ruling him, instead of just tormenting him. Didn't Satan torment Job by taking away Job's children, property and health? Does that mean Satan ruled Job?


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Yeshua's words do not come first. His words, the Law and the prophets were supposedly nailed to the cross by the false prophet Paul. Yeshua's message was the kingdom of God/heaven. One being physical and one being spiritual. The physical kingdom of God will begin with the judgment of men and demons (Revelatio 19:21 & Revelation 20:1-3), which will last 1000 years, the 7th day, and those with the mark of the beast, who is the Roman emperor Constantine, will drink from the cup of the wrath of God. God's mark is to keep the commandments (Dt 6:8) The mark of the beast, is to keep the beasts commandments, as in to keep the day of the sun as your day of rest, per the decree of Constantine in 321 AD. The will of God is written out in the Law and the prophets, and that is what Yeshua came to fulfill. Part of the Law and the prophets is for king David to rule from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16-17) on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:24), and that the nations/Gentiles will worship the King in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:18), and before the son of man comes, first comes the battle of Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:16), which is the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21), whereas all the cities will fall (Revelation 16:19)(Isaiah 6:11), and only one tenth will survive. There is no "Rapture" and no "we shall not sleep/die", for it is the tares which will be the first to be gathered and burned, before the wheat is put into the barn (Matthew 13:30). The survivors of the nations/strangers, shall be as servants (Isaiah 14:1-3). None of this has happened. The prophets have not been fulfilled. Yeshua picking out Peter, the only shepherd called the "worthless shepherd", was to fulfill what was written by the prophets. As for there being 3 shepherds in Zechariah 11, you actually have to read the whole chapter, whereas the first one was called "Favor", because of Paul's false gospel of grace, and the last was the "worthless shepherd"/Peter. As for Isaiah 22, you actually have to read the entire chapter to find that it was Shebna's heir, Eliakim,who was specifically given the "key of the house of David". Shebna, as the one in "charge of the royal household" already had a key. As for how Shebna/Peter shamed "your master's house" you have to go to Zechariah 13:4-7 in which Yeshua quoted with regard to Peter, Zech 4:4 lays out how Peter shamed the royal house by his "vision", which was the vision of unclean food, which led to the false teachings given to Joseph, the house of Israel, scattered among the nations/Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:19). That is how the rift came between Judah and Israel (Zechariah 11:14) by "Cord"/Peter. The RCC is built upon Peter, and her daughter, the Protestants, are built upon the false prophet Paul. Peter and Paul represent the two horns like a lamb, being Christlike, who are the foundation of "Christianity". The Protestants are also built on a false foundation, for the only rock is the "Word of God", which does not include the tare seed of the devil planted in the same field (Matthew 13:24-30). The "tested stone" has justice as a measuring line", and "righteousness as a level", all else, giving the believers "falsehood" and "deception". Their "covenant with death shall be cancelled". (Isaiah 28:15-18). That is to say, they shall surely sleep/die, despite any assurance given them by the false prophet Paul.

2ndpillar2
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Re: Are the stars falling from heaven?

Post #30

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:04 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:52 am As for the ramblings of an unknown author of Acts, where is your second witness of this 3rd party witness? (Matthew 18:16)
How many of the 66 books in the bible canon should we accept as inspired of God? 65 (all of them minus Acts)? 63 (all of them except the book of Acts AND the two letters of Peter?) Are there some gospels we should reject ? Johns gospel perhaps...?

In short how many books in your bible?

JW
You are apparently accepting the tare seed, which comes from the "devil" (Matthew 13:24-50) as the good seed, which comes from the "son of man". Now that we are at the "end of the age", the tares are to be gathered out and cast into the furnace of fire. The tares, who were "stumbling blocks", from Peter, and "those who commit lawlessness", from Paul were originally given protection (Matthew 13:30), but now the wheat is ripe, the tares are ready to be gathered out and burnt. The Protestant church was supposedly born from the idea that the RCC was the Harlot of Babylon, yet the Protestants accept almost everything the RCC has given them, including their canon, although Luther did try to throw out Revelation, Jude, and James. If you read Zechariah 14, you will see what the "end of the age" comes with, and it isn't pretty.

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