What God allows Satan to do

[nobspeople]

There are those that are 'bad' people and they seem to prosper, while there are 'good' people that don't seem to prosper (generally speaking - there are always exceptions).

By allowing this, is God 'shooting himself in the foot'?

People look around and see so many deserving people having a difficult time in life, many (maybe even most) of the time, these people are good people - some are even believers.

People look around and see so many undeserving people prospering in life, enjoying it without a care in the world, they're not 'God fearing' or believers.

Even IF, we could show more believers are prospering while non-believers aren't, does God allowing the 'good to suffer and bad to prosper' cause less people to turn to him, thusly, 'shooting himself in the foot' as the saying goes?

It would seem that, if God wanted more people to come to him, he could use prosperity in life as a means to do so, while showing a life that's not prosperous as a negative for not following him.

Yes yes, we ALL know that this life isn't what's important, it's eternity blah blah blah, but - here and now - this is where he can find people to come to him. Once your life here is done (most believe) it's too late to change your mind.

So do you think it smarter for God to use prosperity as a (though not only) means to bring people to him? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, as they say.
Or does causing suffering a much more productive way?

[mms20102]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #9]

Acknowledge, admire, respect even, but worship, no.

I don't understand why we need to mix all topics together in any debate?. This post was mainly saying that God should make people prosper in order they follow him. And you discuss should we worship God ?. Ok we can discuss this indeed but are we finished with the main point?!

[JehovahsWitness]

So do you think it smarter for God to use prosperity as a (though not only) means to bring people to him?

No, its never a good thing to attempt to buy someone's affection.

Biblically I do believe God certainly has (and to a degree still does) bless his loyal servants materially according to his will for them at the time. That said , the God of the bible God is not interested in those drawn to him on the basis of potential material gains.

Most men (or women) would not be interested in someone that wanted to marry them for their money.

Humans were created with a natural desire to live comfortably in good surroundings and enjoy the pleasures life has to offer and God has promised to reward those that love him with the chance to satisfy those desires, but their chief motivation must be love for him and love of righteousness. Thus in this present system of things the God of the bible makes no promise of an easy life or of material wealth for his all servants.

Since the bible teaches that Satan is presenfly the God of this world, biblically there are only two guarantees for God's sedvants

#1 All those that wish to serve him today will face persecution of some kind

#2 God never abandons those that love Him

Satan raised the issue as to whether humans would only serve God if they prospered materially. He claimed humans would curse God if loss and suffering replaced wealth and prosperity. This has prove true for many, but to his chagrin not for all. Job gave a powerful demonstration of loyalty to his maker and God has extended the grand privilege to all those that love him to play their part in of proving Satan a liar.




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

I read the Bible as God disallowing Satan all evil, yet the 2 forces are somehow primordial. God is omnipotent because of the creation of Heavens and Earth and all on Earth, not the exact banning of evil from all the World.

Therefore, the title seems mistaken. What if God's word, the Bible, to the human kind had not been produced. How much evil wouldn't there been in its place? Finally, if Utopia gets realized in some 100 years some place on Earth then the mission of the Bible has been spot on!

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Aetixintro in post #14]

I read the Bible as God disallowing Satan all evil,

Can you explain this 'disallowing'? If Satan doesn't use it, where is the evil? Who created it? Who and how is it used?

God is omnipotent because of the creation of Heavens and Earth and all on Earth, not the exact banning of evil from all the World.

I'm unsure where you got the whole 'banning evil from all the world' came from. Can you explain?

What if God's word, the Bible, to the human kind had not been produced. How much evil wouldn't there been in its place?

Your answer to your own question is biased, it seems. Are you saying without the creation of the bible, there would be evil (more evil?)? If so, how are you prepared to defend the opposite of that with facts: Saying there's less (no?) evil because of the bible? Does the killing in the name of God that's happened in history not count as evil, or was that justified? If so, how?

Finally, if Utopia gets realized in some 100 years some place on Earth then the mission of the Bible has been spot on!

That's been an end goal for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. The eternal hope of utopia never seems to come to fruition. Why? Is it because the bible is on some sort of crazy time table? Maybe. Is it because the bible is a bunch of bunk written by dead mean, edited by others and translated over and over again? Maybe. Taking out belief, which is more likely?

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #15]

Can you explain this 'disallowing'? If Satan doesn't use it, where is the evil? Who created it? Who and how is it used?

Yes. God does not approve of any evil. Satan is the maker of all evil, at least the person for all of it. So I say that Satan has started all evil on Earth. How evil is "used"? Torture, mayhem, abuse and all other wrongdoing of human kind.

I'm unsure where you got the whole 'banning evil from all the world' came from. Can you explain?

Since evil is primordial, there is only one way for God! To counteract the evil, to guide the human kind so to work against it. All-good-God is not omnipotent in the question of evil and can only work against it.

Your answer to your own question is biased, it seems. Are you saying without the creation of the bible, there would be evil (more evil?)? If so, how are you prepared to defend the opposite of that with facts: Saying there's less (no?) evil because of the bible? Does the killing in the name of God that's happened in history not count as evil, or was that justified? If so, how?

Politicians, rulers of ancient times, have always abused the name of God to justify both their rule and their ways of war in the World. The rulers have been corrupt, perhaps?
The Bible has been leading people in terms of ethics, the Christian ethics and other religious codes of ethics, and therefore been important in terms of leadership in the non-corrupt sense. People have lived by The 10 Commandments and Golden Rule and so moral progress has taken place in the World so much so that we now can speak of possible Utopia in rather near future! Think of the very strong standing of Democracy and Human Rights (UDHR).

That's been an end goal for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. The eternal hope of utopia never seems to come to fruition. Why? Is it because the bible is on some sort of crazy time table? Maybe. Is it because the bible is a bunch of bunk written by dead mean, edited by others and translated over and over again? Maybe. Taking out belief, which is more likely?

Given the increasing fortification of Rule of Democratic Laws and Regulation and the peaceful discussions over all relevant topics what concerns community, I happen to think Utopia is more likely than for example Nuclear Holocaust. Then we have internet etc. that people of the past would have considered magic! We are so lucky to live in 2021 CE.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Aetixintro in post #16]

Thanks for the clarification.

Satan is the maker of all evil, at least the person for all of it. So I say that Satan has started all evil on Earth. How evil is "used"? Torture, mayhem, abuse and all other wrongdoing of human kind.

I don't know what you mean by 'at least the person for all of it' but in regards to the 'maker of all evil', Satan just didn't pop in to existence, so it stands to reason he was created by God. If God created him (which he did it seems) God created evil either by creating Satan or allowing Satan to begin the evil. Ultimately, IMO, everything 'rolls up' to God, including evil.

Since evil is primordial, there is only one way for God! To counteract the evil, to guide the human kind so to work against it. All-good-God is not omnipotent in the question of evil and can only work against it.

If evil is primordial, (existing at or from the beginning of time), God was here after evil, or at the very least, at the same time as evil. So, if true, Evil and God are equal in existence and power (or it would be assumed, God, if more powerful than evil, would have destroyed it already if he didn't like it. Since that hasn't happened it must be assumed he's at least indifferent to evil).

The Bible has been leading people in terms of ethics, the Christian ethics and other religious codes of ethics, and therefore been important in terms of leadership in the non-corrupt sense.

It's also been used to kill, torture and overtake other societies, often times forcing them to worship as the bible indicates, not because they wanted to worship as such. The bible is a tool and like any tool it can be used for a myriad of things, good, bad and indifferent. Any tool, it seems, used by humanity will, at some point, become corrupt. It seems to be human nature.

I happen to think Utopia is more likely than for example Nuclear Holocaust.

That's a way to stay positive!