When evaluating whether the claims of Christianity are true or fictional, it's important to take a step back and think about what is typically seen with regard to true beliefs and false beliefs. And, one of the most important characteristics of true beliefs is the fact that they are often independently discovered by multiple people. For instance, pulmonary circulation was discovered/theorized independently in Egypt by Ibn al Nafis and later in Europe by Michael Servetus and later still William Harvey. Calculus was independently discovered by both Isacc Newton and Gottfried Leibniz, evolution was discovered independently by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russell Wallace. There are countless other examples of "multiple discoveries" of facts that can be found here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... iscoveries
The point is that rational people, who objectively search for truth, will often independently discover facts about the universe. So if Christianity and the existence of the Christian god is a fact about the universe (and we could apply this argument to any other religion/god as well), then we would expect that sincere theologians around the world dedicated to the search for God would independently discover Jesus Christ/Yahweh/Holy Spirit, and thus become Christians. As a result, we would not expect it to take 1500 years for Christianity to reach North America, for instance. If Christianity is true, then it is an objective fact and should thus be discoverable by anyone searching hard enough for the truth about the universe. So, why don't we see Christianity emerge in North or South America, Africa, or China, prior to the arrival of Christians into these parts of the world? One would expect that if Christianity were an objectively true fact, it would be independently discovered in multiple regions of the world. But, it wasn't. Quite the opposite. Prior to the invention of technologies that allowed world travel and communication, every culture had its own version of God, and its own religion. While some of these gods and religions had slight similarities, none of the matched exactly. This is strong evidence that all of these gods and religions are manmade constructs that only exist in the imaginations of humans.
So, my question for Christians is, if your religion is a fact, why was it never independently discovered by anyone? Bear in mind that not only is Christianity supposed to be an objective fact, the god is supposed to want people to know and worship him, meaning that it should be even MORE LIKELY for Christianity to be independently discovered if it is a fact than scientific and mathematical facts are to be independently discovered.
Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Student
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 8:00 pm
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 31 times
- 1213
- Savant
- Posts: 11440
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: Finland
- Has thanked: 326 times
- Been thanked: 370 times
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #2By what the Bible tells, Jesus is the king of Jews, Messiah. He was sent first for Jews in specific time. Because Jesus is tied to certain things, I think it is not reasonable to assume he should be found all over the world. He would not be the same Jesus, if he would not be tied to Israel.Rational Atheist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:46 pm ...So if Christianity and the existence of the Christian god is a fact about the universe (and we could apply this argument to any other religion/god as well), then we would expect that sincere theologians around the world dedicated to the search for God would independently discover Jesus Christ/Yahweh/Holy Spirit, and thus become Christians. As a result, we would not expect it to take 1500 years for Christianity to reach North America, for instance. If Christianity is true, then it is an objective fact and should thus be discoverable by anyone searching hard enough for the truth about the universe. So, why don't we see Christianity emerge in North or South America, Africa, or China, prior to the arrival of Christians into these parts of the world...
However, apparently some outsiders knew Jesus, because they came to give gifts for Jesus when he was born. Would be nice to know how did they know it. And if they knew, perhaps others knew also, but didn’t like.
- brunumb
- Savant
- Posts: 6002
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 6623 times
- Been thanked: 3219 times
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #3Or, that was all made up, just like the rest of the story.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
-
- Student
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 8:00 pm
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 31 times
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #4But according to Christianity, Jesus is the "savior of the world" and God wants people to know about the supposed truth of Jesus' death and resurrection. So why would no one outside of the middle east have heard of Jesus before missionaries arrived? One would think that if Christianity is an objective fact, and there is a god out there who wants people to be Christians, he would implement some means of discoverability of Christianity for people who did not have access to bibles or missionaries.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:16 pmBy what the Bible tells, Jesus is the king of Jews, Messiah. He was sent first for Jews in specific time. Because Jesus is tied to certain things, I think it is not reasonable to assume he should be found all over the world. He would not be the same Jesus, if he would not be tied to Israel.Rational Atheist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:46 pm ...So if Christianity and the existence of the Christian god is a fact about the universe (and we could apply this argument to any other religion/god as well), then we would expect that sincere theologians around the world dedicated to the search for God would independently discover Jesus Christ/Yahweh/Holy Spirit, and thus become Christians. As a result, we would not expect it to take 1500 years for Christianity to reach North America, for instance. If Christianity is true, then it is an objective fact and should thus be discoverable by anyone searching hard enough for the truth about the universe. So, why don't we see Christianity emerge in North or South America, Africa, or China, prior to the arrival of Christians into these parts of the world...
However, apparently some outsiders knew Jesus, because they came to give gifts for Jesus when he was born. Would be nice to know how did they know it. And if they knew, perhaps others knew also, but didn’t like.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21109
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 792 times
- Been thanked: 1122 times
- Contact:
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #5Rational Atheist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:46 pm
So, my question for Christians is, if your religion is a fact, why was it never independently discovered by anyone? Bear in mind that not only is Christianity supposed to be an objective fact, the god is supposed to want people to know and worship him, meaning that it should be even MORE LIKELY for Christianity to be independently discovered if it is a fact than scientific and mathematical facts are to be independently discovered.
There is no doubt Christianity exists as a religious movement.
All human knowledge depends on input from an exterior source since human babies are born free of all but instinctive knowlwedge.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3187
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
- Has thanked: 1510 times
- Been thanked: 824 times
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #6It will never be proven to be true because it's a belief system based on hope and faith, nothing tactile or provable. The absolute best we can find, outside of God himself coming down on the White House lawn and proclaiming himself to be real (which kinda' happened already about 2000 years ago to hear many say it, with not as many takers as one would expect) would be to discover something that bolsters a belief.Rational Atheist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:46 pm When evaluating whether the claims of Christianity are true or fictional, it's important to take a step back and think about what is typically seen with regard to true beliefs and false beliefs. And, one of the most important characteristics of true beliefs is the fact that they are often independently discovered by multiple people. For instance, pulmonary circulation was discovered/theorized independently in Egypt by Ibn al Nafis and later in Europe by Michael Servetus and later still William Harvey. Calculus was independently discovered by both Isacc Newton and Gottfried Leibniz, evolution was discovered independently by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russell Wallace. There are countless other examples of "multiple discoveries" of facts that can be found here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... iscoveries
The point is that rational people, who objectively search for truth, will often independently discover facts about the universe. So if Christianity and the existence of the Christian god is a fact about the universe (and we could apply this argument to any other religion/god as well), then we would expect that sincere theologians around the world dedicated to the search for God would independently discover Jesus Christ/Yahweh/Holy Spirit, and thus become Christians. As a result, we would not expect it to take 1500 years for Christianity to reach North America, for instance. If Christianity is true, then it is an objective fact and should thus be discoverable by anyone searching hard enough for the truth about the universe. So, why don't we see Christianity emerge in North or South America, Africa, or China, prior to the arrival of Christians into these parts of the world? One would expect that if Christianity were an objectively true fact, it would be independently discovered in multiple regions of the world. But, it wasn't. Quite the opposite. Prior to the invention of technologies that allowed world travel and communication, every culture had its own version of God, and its own religion. While some of these gods and religions had slight similarities, none of the matched exactly. This is strong evidence that all of these gods and religions are manmade constructs that only exist in the imaginations of humans.
So, my question for Christians is, if your religion is a fact, why was it never independently discovered by anyone? Bear in mind that not only is Christianity supposed to be an objective fact, the god is supposed to want people to know and worship him, meaning that it should be even MORE LIKELY for Christianity to be independently discovered if it is a fact than scientific and mathematical facts are to be independently discovered.
If you're looing for facts about Christianity, here they are: the belief exists because people want to believe it exists and the bible is a book written about God and his story, by long dead men.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
- 1213
- Savant
- Posts: 11440
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: Finland
- Has thanked: 326 times
- Been thanked: 370 times
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #7I any case, Bible tells that Jesus and his message was first meant for people of Israel, after that for others.Rational Atheist wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:30 pm ...But according to Christianity, Jesus is the "savior of the world" and God wants people to know about the supposed truth of Jesus' death and resurrection. So why would no one outside of the middle east have heard of Jesus before missionaries arrived? One would think that if Christianity is an objective fact, and there is a god out there who wants people to be Christians, he would implement some means of discoverability of Christianity for people who did not have access to bibles or missionaries.
"I wasn't sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Matt. 15:24
"Don't go among the Gentiles, and don't enter into any city of the Samaritans.
Matt. 10:5
And after he was raised from death, the he sent his disciples to do this:
Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20
There can be many reasons, for example simply that the other nations would not have received him anyway. I am not God, and I don’t know the exact reason. But, I believe there is good reason for it.
-
- Student
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 8:00 pm
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 31 times
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #8Why send missionaries then? If God doesn't want certain people to hear the gospel and that is the reason why he never revealed himself to them, then missionaries are going against the will of god and literally sinning.1213 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:48 pmI any case, Bible tells that Jesus and his message was first meant for people of Israel, after that for others.Rational Atheist wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:30 pm ...But according to Christianity, Jesus is the "savior of the world" and God wants people to know about the supposed truth of Jesus' death and resurrection. So why would no one outside of the middle east have heard of Jesus before missionaries arrived? One would think that if Christianity is an objective fact, and there is a god out there who wants people to be Christians, he would implement some means of discoverability of Christianity for people who did not have access to bibles or missionaries.
"I wasn't sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Matt. 15:24
"Don't go among the Gentiles, and don't enter into any city of the Samaritans.
Matt. 10:5
And after he was raised from death, the he sent his disciples to do this:
Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20
There can be many reasons, for example simply that the other nations would not have received him anyway. I am not God, and I don’t know the exact reason. But, I believe there is good reason for it.
-
- Student
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 8:00 pm
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 31 times
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #9And if God exists, he is perfectly capable of imparting knowledge of himself onto humans who have never heard of him. So the question is, why doesn't he?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:54 amRational Atheist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:46 pm
So, my question for Christians is, if your religion is a fact, why was it never independently discovered by anyone? Bear in mind that not only is Christianity supposed to be an objective fact, the god is supposed to want people to know and worship him, meaning that it should be even MORE LIKELY for Christianity to be independently discovered if it is a fact than scientific and mathematical facts are to be independently discovered.
There is no doubt Christianity exists as a religious movement.
All human knowledge depends on input from an exterior source since human babies are born free of all but instinctive knowlwedge.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21109
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 792 times
- Been thanked: 1122 times
- Contact:
Re: Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious
Post #10Well if God is omnipotent the only logical answer to that question would be because He doesn't want to.Rational Atheist wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:16 pm
And if God exists, he is perfectly capable of imparting knowledge of himself onto humans who have never heard of him. So the question is, why doesn't he?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8