Why Christianity is Likely Ficticious

[Rational Atheist]

When evaluating whether the claims of Christianity are true or fictional, it's important to take a step back and think about what is typically seen with regard to true beliefs and false beliefs. And, one of the most important characteristics of true beliefs is the fact that they are often independently discovered by multiple people. For instance, pulmonary circulation was discovered/theorized independently in Egypt by Ibn al Nafis and later in Europe by Michael Servetus and later still William Harvey. Calculus was independently discovered by both Isacc Newton and Gottfried Leibniz, evolution was discovered independently by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russell Wallace. There are countless other examples of "multiple discoveries" of facts that can be found here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... iscoveries

The point is that rational people, who objectively search for truth, will often independently discover facts about the universe. So if Christianity and the existence of the Christian god is a fact about the universe (and we could apply this argument to any other religion/god as well), then we would expect that sincere theologians around the world dedicated to the search for God would independently discover Jesus Christ/Yahweh/Holy Spirit, and thus become Christians. As a result, we would not expect it to take 1500 years for Christianity to reach North America, for instance. If Christianity is true, then it is an objective fact and should thus be discoverable by anyone searching hard enough for the truth about the universe. So, why don't we see Christianity emerge in North or South America, Africa, or China, prior to the arrival of Christians into these parts of the world? One would expect that if Christianity were an objectively true fact, it would be independently discovered in multiple regions of the world. But, it wasn't. Quite the opposite. Prior to the invention of technologies that allowed world travel and communication, every culture had its own version of God, and its own religion. While some of these gods and religions had slight similarities, none of the matched exactly. This is strong evidence that all of these gods and religions are manmade constructs that only exist in the imaginations of humans.

So, my question for Christians is, if your religion is a fact, why was it never independently discovered by anyone? Bear in mind that not only is Christianity supposed to be an objective fact, the god is supposed to want people to know and worship him, meaning that it should be even MORE LIKELY for Christianity to be independently discovered if it is a fact than scientific and mathematical facts are to be independently discovered.

[RJG]

Many of the stories attributed to the Biblical Jesus are much less than credible, as there is no verifiable to support them, it is likely they were invented by the gospel writers.

[We_Are_VENOM]

1 & 2) Please prove these to be true and accurate, beyond any doubt.

#1 What I meant was, since we are talking about the Christian God (who is omniscient) and knows all possible outcomes, to say that God should have done it X way instead of Y way is saying, not only should God have KNOWN better, but that you are smarter than God...which are both quite silly.

#2 I am just merely stating what the Bible says; which is that the universe should be sufficient enough for any reasonable person to draw the conclusion of intelligent design.

3) Looking to see God in nature and seeing him because you want to see him: is the tendency for incorrect perception of a stimulus as an object, pattern or meaning known to the observer. Common examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, or lunar pareidolia like a face in smoke of a fire, Jesus in a grilled cheese, etc.
Your universe example is a form of an example of pareidolia = wanting to see god so bad you see him where you wish.

Genetic fallacy.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/log ... ic-Fallacy

[nobspeople]

1 & 2) Please prove these to be true and accurate, beyond any doubt.

#1 What I meant was, since we are talking about the Christian God (who is omniscient) and knows all possible outcomes, to say that God should have done it X way instead of Y way is saying, not only should God have KNOWN better, but that you are smarter than God...which are both quite silly.

#2 I am just merely stating what the Bible says; which is that the universe should be sufficient enough for any reasonable person to draw the conclusion of intelligent design.

3) Looking to see God in nature and seeing him because you want to see him: is the tendency for incorrect perception of a stimulus as an object, pattern or meaning known to the observer. Common examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, or lunar pareidolia like a face in smoke of a fire, Jesus in a grilled cheese, etc.
Your universe example is a form of an example of pareidolia = wanting to see god so bad you see him where you wish.

Genetic fallacy.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/log ... ic-Fallacy

Thanks for the clarification.
#1 above: People always question God. If God is real and all knowing, it's pointless. Even if we could PROVE God was wrong in doing X, what are we gonna' do about it?!? Not much
#2 above: While I appreciate you speaking on what the bible 'says', the bible says a lot of things. Rather or not these things are literal or symbolic, well, even Christians can't all agree.

Genetic fallacy.

Elaboration is required here.

[Clownboat]

The proof is the universe (Rom 1:20).

And yet in another thread you present the amusing Modal Ontological Argument as evidence of God. Which is it?


Tcg

Both. And to your chagrin, there are many more too.

If your first claim were true, you'd need no other. You of course have presented another which shows you first false.


Tcg

The evidence/proof is meant to convince "reasonable" people.

Not everyone is reasonable, so not everyone is convinced.

If you are convinced that snakes and donkeys can speak, or that there was a global flood, or that a man lived in the belly of a fish for days, or that a decomposing corpse reanimated on more than one occasion, angels, devils, demons, and on and on...

I must ask as to what would allow you to conclude that you are a reasonable person? Such claims are obviously not reasonable (outside of cartoons), yet here you are seemingly immune from your unreasonability.

Is it possible that you are not reasonable and that is why you have been convinced that the unreasonable happened in the ancient past?

[William]

I think it is reasonable to understand that these imagined things do exist in some other universe which might be experienced as real after one has passed on...from this current reality experience.

Therefore I must think it reasonable that there will be an afterlife to experience which will be at least as real as this current experience has been.

I understand not everyone thinks an afterlife experience is a real possibility and therefore a reasonable expectation. But I also understand the "so what" about that

[Purple Knight]

By what the Bible tells, Jesus is the king of Jews, Messiah. He was sent first for Jews in specific time. Because Jesus is tied to certain things, I think it is not reasonable to assume he should be found all over the world. He would not be the same Jesus, if he would not be tied to Israel.

Pretty much this. Monotheism is middle-eastern. The better question is why anyone else thinks they're going to be saved because they worship a god that would rather Jews have your city (Jericho) than for you, a non-middle-easterner, also known as a Canaanite, to have it.

I'm not claiming this is racist or wrong. I just don't see why you'd believe this god suddenly changed its mind and decided that all lives mattered, not just the lives of the Chosen, just because Jesus said so.

If none of this is true, then Christianity can be universal because God is whatever its worshipers want it to be. But if the Bible is true, it's probably more likely that this god wants worshipers in droves but isn't willing to reward anyone but the people it created, cared for, and repeatedly sacrificed the welfare of others for their welfare.

[1213]

...I'm not claiming this is racist or wrong. I just don't see why you'd believe this god suddenly changed its mind and decided that all lives mattered, not just the lives of the Chosen, just because Jesus said so.
...

I think all lives have always mattered, but God doesn’t allow unrighteous and evil people live forever. And I think it is good, because if unrighteous and evil people would live eternally, they would make life eternal suffering for all.

If other nations would have been righteous and not evil, they would have the same promises as Jews have and God would not reject them.

[Purple Knight]

If other nations would have been righteous and not evil, they would have the same promises as Jews have and God would not reject them.

Did God talk to them and say as much?

[Clownboat]

I think....

This is where you lose us if you care.
(If you can show that what you think is real, you would do so and we would care).

I could ask my 9 year old what she thinks, but that is not a way to arrive at truth.

[Clownboat]

I think.... And I think....

(Copy/paste as this is the same phenomenon)
This is where you lose us if you care.
(If you can show that what you think is real, you would do so and we would care).

I could ask my 9 year old what she thinks, but that is not a way to arrive at truth.

Let's try this another way...
I think that Allah is the one true God. Convinced much?

One god concept, yet we have millions of humans thinking mutually exclusive ideas on its behalf.
The gods don't seemt to show their followers anything, but boy do followers think on behalf of their god concept.

I could see it now. I think the gods want us to attack our neighboring tribe. I think they wants us to kill everyone of them, except for the virgin girls. Those I think the gods wants us to keep for ourselves.

Could you imagine such a thing and where it could lead? Oh wait.... Seems as though humans have been thinking on behalf of god concepts for thousands of years already.