What would it take for you?

[nobspeople]

Recently started watching a Netflix documentary about Mormonism and how (at least up to this point) the church seemed to be going to any and all means to stop documentation from getting out that, they think, would totally uproot their belief system (though I haven't finished it yet).

So, what would it take, for you, to disavow your religion and religious belief?
Documentation from writers of that time period?
Documentation from current high up leaders?
Testimony of how it's a farce from those who spent the majority of their lives in it, finally seeing their own light?
Science?
Data?
Another, more believable religion?


For those of us who are in the 'been-there-done-that-bought-the-t-shirt' crowd, what was it that caused you to change?

[Tcg]

[Replying to Goose in post #62]

The examples continue.

The Bible:



Science:




Tcg

[Tcg]

[Replying to Goose in post #62]

The examples are almost endless.

The Bible:



Science:




Tcg

[brunumb]

THE BIBLE : “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the rivers come, to there and from there they return again.”​—Ecclesiastes 1:7, The Amplified Bible.

At very least, this shows that ancient people weren't as ignorant as everyone seems to think.

The science is not in the observation but in the explanation. It's not hard for people to observe that rivers run into the sea and the sea level doesn't rise. Contemplation of this observation can easily lead to the conclusion that the water somehow is removed and must go back to where it started. No mention is made of the role of rainfall, so for all we know they might have thought that invisible hordes of angels bucketed the water out of the sea. To equate the biblical passage with the hydrological cycle as we understand it is a mighty big stretch.

[JehovahsWitness]

Ecclesiastes 1:
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.

We can pretend it doesn't say this, but it does.


Tcg

So does NASA ....


source: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... her-worlds


You can pretend that planetary science does not recognise the existence of sunsets/sunrises ... but it does.




JW



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[brunumb]

You can pretend that planetary science does not recognise the existence of sunsets/sunrises ... but it does.

The words do not scientifically describe the mechanism behind the observations we make.
And the sun does not "hurry back to where it rises"!

[Goose]

"Unlike Crossan...I believe that the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ burial are largely consistent with the archaeological evidence. Although archaeology does not prove there was a follower of Jesus named Joseph of Arimathea or that Pontius Pilate granted his request for Jesus’ body, the Gospel accounts describing Jesus’ removal from the cross and burial are consistent with archaeological evidence and with Jewish law." - [Jodi Magness]

What science is involved in removing a body from a cross and burying it?

In this case archaeology.

[Goose]

So, what would it take, for you, to disavow your religion and religious belief?

The same as any other belief I currently hold to be true, prove it false.

Documentation from writers of that time period?

That would be a very good start.

Documentation from current high up leaders?

If they had proved the belief false.

Testimony of how it's a farce from those who spent the majority of their lives in it, finally seeing their own light?

Same answer as above.

Science?
Data?
Another, more believable religion?

Same answer as above.

[benchwarmer]

Also, we say the sun moves. We say that, despite knowing full well that it doesn't. The sun rises. The sun sets. The sun disappears below the horizon.

Just because I like to pick nits, technically the sun does move. In fact it's moving pretty fast, about 220 kilometers per second.

https://astronomy.com/magazine/ask-astr ... -milky-way

[The Barbarian]

Coming at it from the other way, the single most compelling fact for me, is that Jesus' apostles, teaching that He rose from the grave, walked and ate with them for a time, were willing to suffer torture and death, rather than recant their beliefs.

Evidence that these men didn't exist, or that none of them were willing to suffer martyrdom would go a long way toward shaking my faith in Christianity.

[benchwarmer]

Coming at it from the other way, the single most compelling fact for me, is that Jesus' apostles, teaching that He rose from the grave, walked and ate with them for a time, were willing to suffer torture and death, rather than recant their beliefs.

Evidence that these men didn't exist, or that none of them were willing to suffer martyrdom would go a long way toward shaking my faith in Christianity.

Yet we have Islamists who are not only willing to die for their beliefs, but do so without being tortured. Supposedly, they choose death to further their cause, rather than simply just be willing to die if they don't recant their beliefs.

This seems to point to Islam as the stronger choice doesn't it?

I personally find this completely uncompelling simply due to the fact that we have evidence that more than one faith has martyrs. They can't all be right. The could all be wrong though...