What would it take for you?

Argue for and against Christianity

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nobspeople
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What would it take for you?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Recently started watching a Netflix documentary about Mormonism and how (at least up to this point) the church seemed to be going to any and all means to stop documentation from getting out that, they think, would totally uproot their belief system (though I haven't finished it yet).

So, what would it take, for you, to disavow your religion and religious belief?
Documentation from writers of that time period?
Documentation from current high up leaders?
Testimony of how it's a farce from those who spent the majority of their lives in it, finally seeing their own light?
Science?
Data?
Another, more believable religion?


For those of us who are in the 'been-there-done-that-bought-the-t-shirt' crowd, what was it that caused you to change?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Goose
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #61

Post by Goose »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:10 pmCan you provide examples of science agreeing with scripture?
I can give you an example from archaeologist Jodi Magness. Her concluding remarks in "The Burial Of Jesus" (pg. 8)...

"Unlike Crossan...I believe that the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ burial are largely consistent with the archaeological evidence. Although archaeology does not prove there was a follower of Jesus named Joseph of Arimathea or that Pontius Pilate granted his request for Jesus’ body, the Gospel accounts describing Jesus’ removal from the cross and burial are consistent with archaeological evidence and with Jewish law."
Things atheists say:

"Is it the case [that torturing and killing babies for fun is immoral]? Prove it." - Bust Nak

"For the record...I think the Gospels are intentional fiction and Jesus wasn't a real guy." – Difflugia

"Julius Caesar and Jesus both didn't exist." - brunumb

"...most atheists have no arguments or evidence to disprove God." – unknown soldier (a.k.a. the banned member Jagella)

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brunumb
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #62

Post by brunumb »

Goose wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:44 pm
"Unlike Crossan...I believe that the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ burial are largely consistent with the archaeological evidence. Although archaeology does not prove there was a follower of Jesus named Joseph of Arimathea or that Pontius Pilate granted his request for Jesus’ body, the Gospel accounts describing Jesus’ removal from the cross and burial are consistent with archaeological evidence and with Jewish law."
:( What science is involved in removing a body from a cross and burying it?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Tcg
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #63

Post by Tcg »

Goose wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:44 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:10 pmCan you provide examples of science agreeing with scripture?
I can give you an example from archaeologist Jodi Magness. Her concluding remarks in "The Burial Of Jesus" (pg. 8)...

"Unlike Crossan...I believe that the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ burial are largely consistent with the archaeological evidence. Although archaeology does not prove there was a follower of Jesus named Joseph of Arimathea or that Pontius Pilate granted his request for Jesus’ body, the Gospel accounts describing Jesus’ removal from the cross and burial are consistent with archaeological evidence and with Jewish law."
Here's another example.

Bible:
Image
Science:

Image


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #64

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:10 pm
Can you provide examples of science agreeing with scripture?
THE HYDROLOGIC CYCLE

Image

THE BIBLE : “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the rivers come, to there and from there they return again.”​—Ecclesiastes 1:7, The Amplified Bible.
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EVOLUTION, BIBLE & SCIENCE and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS
FURTHER READING
Reasons to Trust the Bible #4 Scientific Accuracy
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... -accuracy/

Does Science Agree With the Bible?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... the-bible/

Is the Bible Outdated? Or Ahead of Its Time?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/science/
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #65

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:10 pm
... can you also provide the scientific counterpoint (where science disagrees with scripture) ....?
No. As I said. ...
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:05 am

In my opinion, good (accurate/proven) science always agrees with scripture.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Tcg
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #66

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:47 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:10 pm
Can you provide examples of science agreeing with scripture?
THE HYDROLOGIC CYCLE

Image

THE BIBLE : “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the rivers come, to there and from there they return again.”​—Ecclesiastes 1:7, The Amplified Bible.
You forgot to include the biblical schema:

Image


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Purple Knight
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #67

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:47 pmTHE BIBLE : “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the rivers come, to there and from there they return again.”​—Ecclesiastes 1:7, The Amplified Bible.
At very least, this shows that ancient people weren't as ignorant as everyone seems to think.

Also, the order in which the five classes* of vertebrate life evolved actually matches the account in Genesis decently well. Only birds are misplaced, coming to be on the same "day" as the fish and not closer to the mammals. I'd call that a hit overall rather than a miss. I would expect someone just talking out of their back end to fill the land before the ocean and have no idea whatsoever that fish were ancient, coming a whole "day" before other vertebrate life.

(*fish aren't a class anymore but they were once accepted as one)
Tcg wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:16 pmYou forgot to include the biblical schema:
That's someone's drawing based on what they read in Genesis. I don't believe Genesis ever actually places the sun as going round the Earth.

You certainly can read Genesis as saying that outer space is full of water, but one wonders what someone ancient would have called space, not having a word for space, if space had been perfectly divinely revealed to them. Given that limitation I'm not going to call "The Waters Above" (which is what I believe it says) a miss either.

Also, we say the sun moves. We say that, despite knowing full well that it doesn't. The sun rises. The sun sets. The sun disappears below the horizon.

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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #68

Post by Tcg »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:33 pm That's someone's drawing based on what they read in Genesis. I don't believe Genesis ever actually places the sun as going round the Earth.
The graphic, based on the biblical text, refers to Ecclesiastes in this matter not Genesis:

Ecclesiastes 1:
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
We can pretend it doesn't say this, but it does.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Purple Knight
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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #69

Post by Purple Knight »

Tcg wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:40 pmWe can pretend it doesn't say this, but it does.
But so do we!

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Re: What would it take for you?

Post #70

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to Goose in post #62]

Here's more.

The Bible:

Image

Science:

Image


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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