A family was driving on an interstate and when the drove under the bridge, it collapsed on them, killing all of them. This happened many, many years ago in Wisconsin of Minnesota or somewhere around that area.
A person was supposed to be on one of the 9/11 flights, but woke up late and didn't make the flight. He didn't die that day.
A woman was stuck in traffic before she reached the Silver Bridge. It collapsed. Because she wasn't on the bridge, she didn't die that day.
I was driving through downtown around 1AM in no traffic. My light was green. Something told me to slow down. I did. Someone ran their red light traveling well over the posted speed limit. I didn't die that day.
My father left work to go to my brother's soccer game. He was at a red light. It turned green. He pulled out in the intersection. A semi truck driver, sitting high in his truck, didn't see the red light due to the overpass above him until it was too late. He hit my father's driver's side. My father died later that day.
These types of incidences happen in this world.
For discussion:
Is it because there's so much going on at the time, that almost anything is bound to happen to someone somewhere, speaking to the odds?
Or is it because their fate dictated they weren't (or were) to die that day.
Can fate operate in a world of free will and God? Why or why not?
Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #2[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]
As far as I can tell God’s existence (or lack thereof) does not change the existence or non-existence of fate. Belief in God may change our understanding of fate. However, the concept of fate makes as much (or as little) sense if one believes in God or not.
As far as I can tell God’s existence (or lack thereof) does not change the existence or non-existence of fate. Belief in God may change our understanding of fate. However, the concept of fate makes as much (or as little) sense if one believes in God or not.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #3Do you think IF God has a plan, that negates fate in anyway? Or is God's plan fate? Both questions assuming fate exists.bjs1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:14 am [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]
As far as I can tell God’s existence (or lack thereof) does not change the existence or non-existence of fate. Belief in God may change our understanding of fate. However, the concept of fate makes as much (or as little) sense if one believes in God or not.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #4The word fate means: the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:20 amDo you think IF God has a plan, that negates fate in anyway? Or is God's plan fate? Both questions assuming fate exists.bjs1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:14 am [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]
As far as I can tell God’s existence (or lack thereof) does not change the existence or non-existence of fate. Belief in God may change our understanding of fate. However, the concept of fate makes as much (or as little) sense if one believes in God or not.
To whatever degree fate exists, it would be a part of God's plan.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #5Would that, then, negate free will?bjs1 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:40 amThe word fate means: the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:20 amDo you think IF God has a plan, that negates fate in anyway? Or is God's plan fate? Both questions assuming fate exists.bjs1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:14 am [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]
As far as I can tell God’s existence (or lack thereof) does not change the existence or non-existence of fate. Belief in God may change our understanding of fate. However, the concept of fate makes as much (or as little) sense if one believes in God or not.
To whatever degree fate exists, it would be a part of God's plan.
Or does free will mean 'operating within a certain set of parameters'? In other words, each action has multiple options that fit within a plan and choosing any of those options means you still stay within the plan?
Or can one operate outside the plan, choosing fates that remove one from the guidelines?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #6Free will means to choose either right or wrong. Fate, or what is written in the stars is written in the stars. When your time comes, you die, or if you disrespect your parents, of course you can die before your time. If someone whispers into your ear to slow down, then of course you can slow down or speed up and die before your time. As for God, he has his elect, which he has chosen from the beginning of time, but apparently even they can possibly be deceived (Matthew 24), which would not be in their best interest.nobspeople wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:47 am A family was driving on an interstate and when the drove under the bridge, it collapsed on them, killing all of them. This happened many, many years ago in Wisconsin of Minnesota or somewhere around that area.
A person was supposed to be on one of the 9/11 flights, but woke up late and didn't make the flight. He didn't die that day.
A woman was stuck in traffic before she reached the Silver Bridge. It collapsed. Because she wasn't on the bridge, she didn't die that day.
I was driving through downtown around 1AM in no traffic. My light was green. Something told me to slow down. I did. Someone ran their red light traveling well over the posted speed limit. I didn't die that day.
My father left work to go to my brother's soccer game. He was at a red light. It turned green. He pulled out in the intersection. A semi truck driver, sitting high in his truck, didn't see the red light due to the overpass above him until it was too late. He hit my father's driver's side. My father died later that day.
These types of incidences happen in this world.
For discussion:
Is it because there's so much going on at the time, that almost anything is bound to happen to someone somewhere, speaking to the odds?
Or is it because their fate dictated they weren't (or were) to die that day.
Can fate operate in a world of free will and God? Why or why not?
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #7[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #6]
Curious, how does the below relate to each other as it seemed to indicate based on how it was worded?
Speaking to the topic:
Free will can also mean, the ability to choose, not just right or wrong. Unless, one involves fate. Then each choice will either be right or wrong, based upon one's fate.
But if there's no fate, that means not every choice is right or wrong.
Curious, how does the below relate to each other as it seemed to indicate based on how it was worded?
if you disrespect your parents, of course you can die before your time.
Which is even more reason for me to ignore 'Him'.As for God, he has his elect, which he has chosen from the beginning of time
Speaking to the topic:
This doesn't nullify, or support, the other necessarily.Free will means to choose either right or wrong. Fate, or what is written in the stars is written in the stars.
Free will can also mean, the ability to choose, not just right or wrong. Unless, one involves fate. Then each choice will either be right or wrong, based upon one's fate.
But if there's no fate, that means not every choice is right or wrong.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #8Boy, I checked six dictionaries and none of them mentioned a "supernatural power" OR anything at all about god.bjs1 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:40 amThe word fate means: the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:20 amDo you think IF God has a plan, that negates fate in anyway? Or is God's plan fate? Both questions assuming fate exists.bjs1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:14 am [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]
As far as I can tell God’s existence (or lack thereof) does not change the existence or non-existence of fate. Belief in God may change our understanding of fate. However, the concept of fate makes as much (or as little) sense if one believes in God or not.
To whatever degree fate exists, it would be a part of God's plan.
fate noun
\ ˈfāt
\
Definition of fate
1 : the will or principle or determining cause by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do : destiny
2 : an inevitable and often adverse outcome, condition, or end
Source: Merriam-Webster
___________________________
fate[ feyt ]
noun
1 something that unavoidably befalls a person; fortune; lot: It is always his fate to be left behind.
2 the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time: Fate decreed that they would never meet again.
3 that which is inevitably predetermined; destiny: Death is our ineluctable fate.
4 a prophetic declaration of what must be: The oracle pronounced their fate.
5 death, destruction, or ruin.
Source: Dictionary.com
___________________________
FATE
1. uncountable noun [also N in pl]
Fate is a power that some people believe controls and decides everything that happens, in a way that cannot be prevented or changed.
2. countable noun
A person's or thing's fate is what happens to them.
Source: Collins Dictionary
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fate
noun
US /feɪt/
1
countable the things that happen to someone, especially unpleasant things
fate of:
"a meeting that would decide the fate of thousands of employees"
2
uncountable a power that some people believe controls everything that happens in their lives
"Fate has dealt these people a cruel blow."
Source: Macmillan Dictionary
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fate /feɪt/ ●○○ noun
1 [countable usually singular] the things that happen to someone or something, especially unpleasant things that end their existence or end a particular period
2 [uncountable] a power that is believed to control what happens in people’s lives
3 → a fate worse than death
Source: Longman Dictionary
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fate
1.
karma; destiny; chance; luck: We met through a lucky twist of fate.
Not to be confused with:fete – a day of celebration; a holiday: It was a joyous fete.
2.
a. The inevitable events predestined by this force: It was her fate to marry a lout.
b. A final result or consequence; an outcome: What was the fate of your project?
c. An unfavorable outcome in life; doom or death: suffered a fate worse than death; the island where the explorer met his fate.
Source: The Free Dictionary
___________________________
\ ˈfāt
\
Definition of fate
1 : the will or principle or determining cause by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do : destiny
2 : an inevitable and often adverse outcome, condition, or end
Source: Merriam-Webster
___________________________
fate[ feyt ]
noun
1 something that unavoidably befalls a person; fortune; lot: It is always his fate to be left behind.
2 the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time: Fate decreed that they would never meet again.
3 that which is inevitably predetermined; destiny: Death is our ineluctable fate.
4 a prophetic declaration of what must be: The oracle pronounced their fate.
5 death, destruction, or ruin.
Source: Dictionary.com
___________________________
FATE
1. uncountable noun [also N in pl]
Fate is a power that some people believe controls and decides everything that happens, in a way that cannot be prevented or changed.
2. countable noun
A person's or thing's fate is what happens to them.
Source: Collins Dictionary
___________________________
fate
noun
US /feɪt/
1
countable the things that happen to someone, especially unpleasant things
fate of:
"a meeting that would decide the fate of thousands of employees"
2
uncountable a power that some people believe controls everything that happens in their lives
"Fate has dealt these people a cruel blow."
Source: Macmillan Dictionary
___________________________
fate /feɪt/ ●○○ noun
1 [countable usually singular] the things that happen to someone or something, especially unpleasant things that end their existence or end a particular period
2 [uncountable] a power that is believed to control what happens in people’s lives
3 → a fate worse than death
Source: Longman Dictionary
___________________________
fate
1.
karma; destiny; chance; luck: We met through a lucky twist of fate.
Not to be confused with:fete – a day of celebration; a holiday: It was a joyous fete.
2.
a. The inevitable events predestined by this force: It was her fate to marry a lout.
b. A final result or consequence; an outcome: What was the fate of your project?
c. An unfavorable outcome in life; doom or death: suffered a fate worse than death; the island where the explorer met his fate.
Source: The Free Dictionary
___________________________
So the consensus would be that the supernatural isn't involved at all, and I can only surmise you picked your definition either out of some religious dictionary or out of thin air.
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #9Searching for ‘causes of death’, I found 173,040 accidents (unintentional injuries) in the US in 2018, so there’s certainly a large quantity of things ‘going on’ which to a casual observer might appear like the ‘hand of fate’. I presume there’s an even larger number of unreported ‘near misses’ along the lines of your ‘slow down at the green light’ example.Is it because there's so much going on at the time, that almost anything is bound to happen to someone somewhere, speaking to the odds?
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Re: Fate. Does it exist in the light of God?
Post #10This is an important point we need to consider: situational pareidolia.Diagoras wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:32 pmSearching for ‘causes of death’, I found 173,040 accidents (unintentional injuries) in the US in 2018, so there’s certainly a large quantity of things ‘going on’ which to a casual observer might appear like the ‘hand of fate’.Is it because there's so much going on at the time, that almost anything is bound to happen to someone somewhere, speaking to the odds?
With billions of people living decades, this should be expected.I presume there’s an even larger number of unreported ‘near misses’ along the lines of your ‘slow down at the green light’ example.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!