Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

I tripped this morning (clumsy me). I laughed to myself when I thought how it looked from above. Then my mind pulled back. I wondered what it must look like, looking at billions of people at the same time. Not just people, but the animals. Then the plants. But ever more minutely, bacteria, viruses, cells, atoms, energy....
And that's just on this planet.

It made me wonder how much God actually sees. Everything, I suspect if he's divine as claimed. I wondered how much 'energy' (for lack of a better term) it must take to be able to see and know everything that exists, existed and will exist. The power that must take - an ability we can't imagine accurately.

It made me think how could such a being love me? Love you? Love the girl down the street or the guy across town. Everyone. All at the same time. Living, dead and to be born.
And not just love, but support, speak to, uplift, protect...it's something our brains aren't able to comprehend.

So I wondered, why would such a 'thing' (call it a god, God, divinity, divine, creator, Creator, whatever) with such capability, love one person, while still being able to love another and see, know, hear, create all the things and people God's said to see, know, hear, create.

For consideration: Which is more likely, God (or whatever term you want to use here) really love each one individually, or the idea of him loving us individually something so strong within us we created this whole idea of a supreme god loving us?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

The scripture comes to mind
1 JOHN 4:8

Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love

I believe in a Creator with an infinite capacity to love. Most people l have spoken to that believes as I do, have voice to me how they have been struck by how small they feel in the face of Jehovah's immense love for them, I certainly have. Still ... love is, what it is. If you have it, consider yourself blessed.



JW




Image



DIVINE LOVE

Can anyone explain what the bible expression "God is love" actually means?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p954754

Does God love us?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 80#p876680

How can God love us when we are so insignificant? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1035405#p1035405

Is Divine love a threat?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 79#p844379

Does God attempt to COERCE people into loving him?
viewtopic.php?p=1030964#p1030964

Can one love God without liking him?
viewtopic.php?p=1026668#p1026668
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

DIVINE LOVE, HATE and ...POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #3

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:36 am The scripture comes to mind
1 JOHN 4:8

Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love

I believe in a Creator with an infinite capacity to love. Most people l have spoken to that believes as I do, have voice to me how they have been struck by how small they feel in the face of Jehovah's immense love for them, I certainly have. Still ... love is, what it is. If you have it, consider yourself blessed.



JW




Image



DIVINE LOVE

Can anyone explain what the bible expression "God is love" actually means?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p954754

Does God love us?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 80#p876680

How can God love us when we are so insignificant? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1035405#p1035405

Is Divine love a threat?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 79#p844379

Does God attempt to COERCE people into loving him?
viewtopic.php?p=1030964#p1030964

Can one love God without liking him?
viewtopic.php?p=1026668#p1026668
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

DIVINE LOVE, HATE and ...POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT
That's all well and good, but not sure it meets the criteria of the thread. Which was:
"Which is more likely, God (or whatever term you want to use here) really love each one individually, or the idea of him loving us individually something so strong within us we created this whole idea of a supreme god loving us?"
Or are you saying the scriptures tell you it's more likely that a creator loves us - a creator we can't truly begin to understand - or that humanity created the idea of such a thing loving them?
If so, why do YOU BELIEVE the 'scriptures' are more likely to be true than the human psyche wanting to feel love so much that they created the 'god concept'?

And remember sub-forum rules - particularly 2 & 3. Personally, I don't give two hoots about what the scriptures say - I care about what YOU say. Surely you can use them to help bolster your POV, but I want your POV, not the POV of some long dead author.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
Purple Knight
Prodigy
Posts: 3465
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 1129 times
Been thanked: 729 times

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #4

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:03 pm I tripped this morning (clumsy me). I laughed to myself when I thought how it looked from above. Then my mind pulled back. I wondered what it must look like, looking at billions of people at the same time. Not just people, but the animals. Then the plants. But ever more minutely, bacteria, viruses, cells, atoms, energy....
And that's just on this planet.

...

So I wondered, why would such a 'thing' (call it a god, God, divinity, divine, creator, Creator, whatever) with such capability, love one person, while still being able to love another and see, know, hear, create all the things and people God's said to see, know, hear, create.

For consideration: Which is more likely, God (or whatever term you want to use here) really love each one individually, or the idea of him loving us individually something so strong within us we created this whole idea of a supreme god loving us?
I find it decently likely, if we're to assume such a being.

Think of the worst creature you can imagine, the most disgusting. I select a cockroach. They scare the living heck out of me. They disgust me more than almost anything.

If I can bring myself to watch one cleaning itself and say, lo, it is like a cat, my most hated animal is alike to my most beloved one... then sure, it's possible. If I can do this a little bit, surely God can do it better.
nobspeople wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:50 amAnd remember sub-forum rules - particularly 2 & 3. Personally, I don't give two hoots about what the scriptures say - I care about what YOU say.
That very much is what he said. He believes those things he cited. Perhaps he sees no reason to rephrase. You didn't exactly ask a question one could answer with hard facts and science. You asked what each person considers more likely.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:50 am
"Which is more likely, God... really love each one individually, or the idea of him loving us individually something so strong within us we created this whole idea of a supreme god loving us?"

I believe it is more likely there is a God [that] really loves each one of us individually. "In a world of no water there can be no thirst". If we crave love so much we will invent a God to love us, that love must have existed prior to our existence; and in reality be no invention at all. We call that love YWHW (1 John 4:8).



JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #6

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:18 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:50 am
"Which is more likely, God... really love each one individually, or the idea of him loving us individually something so strong within us we created this whole idea of a supreme god loving us?"

I believe it is more likely there is a God [that] really loves each one of us individually. "In a world of no water there can be no thirst". If we crave love so much we will invent a God to love us, that love must have existed prior to our existence; and in reality be no invention at all. We call that love YWHW (1 John 4:8).



JW
Fair enough.
It just seems, with humanity being as creative as they are, it would be a lot easier and more likely to create a loving, supreme being that 'has our back' and protects them, than it be real. Especially when one looks at NDEs and how they tend to show exactly what that person wanted to experience.
But fair enough.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #7

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #4]
I find it decently likely, if we're to assume such a being.
That's a lot like creating a being to serve a purpose as I see it.
Think of the worst creature you can imagine, the most disgusting. I select a cockroach. They scare the living heck out of me. They disgust me more than almost anything.

If I can bring myself to watch one cleaning itself and say, lo, it is like a cat, my most hated animal is alike to my most beloved one... then sure, it's possible.
Of course it's possible. So are flying pigs in some dimension (anything's possible). Is possible and likely the same ("Which is more likely" not "Which is more possible")? Square/rectangle type of thing?
That very much is what he said. He believes those things he cited. Perhaps he sees no reason to rephrase.
He believed enough to rephrase, which is good enough for me.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:50 pm
It just seems, with humanity being as creative as they are, it would be a lot easier and more likely to create a loving, supreme being that 'has our back' and protects them, than it be real.
But the whole point is "why should we"? And do so with such consistency, such ardour, such single minded devotion throughout the ages? How did that come to be without its prior existence somewhere.
Do you crave ×*!;^^☆□¤ ?

What is ×*!;^^☆□¤ you ask.

My answer: exactly!
Something that does not exist cannot be missed. We don't search for ×*!;^^☆□¤ ... we cannot, its nothing. Yes we have bigger brains (an anomally that demands an explanation), yes we have imagination (ditto), but the need for LOVE is more than a need for another Harry Potter novel, its a fundamental part of what makes us human...it is essentially what we live for and what makes our lives worth living. Where did this need originate in a universe devoid of love? No, to come back to your question, I find it infintely more likely it comes from a God [that] really loves each one of us individually than from some ameoba that thought it might like some ×*!;^^☆□¤ once it was invented.



JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Online
User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #9

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:06 pm
Something that does not exist cannot be missed.
Of course it can. Those who had imaginary friends as a child miss them when they're gone. Of course some may claim those imaginary friends actually exist in the minds of those who imagine them. Sure, in the same way that god/gods exist in the imaginations of those who imagine them.

Imaginary beings can be missed as much as real ones. The missing doesn't determine their actual existence.

Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: Is it really love or do we just want it to be love?

Post #10

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #8]
But the whole point is "why should we"?
Why shouldn't humanity do this? If you can't verify what you want exists, you create it. Seems a rather elementary concept, really.
And do so with such consistency, such ardour, such single minded devotion throughout the ages?
People and their minds are more capable of things than many give them created for.
How did that come to be without its prior existence somewhere.
Why does something have to exist prior? Humans create. Doesn't seem like a stretch to think them possible and capable of such things.
But I can see how Christians may think like this. Christianity tends to degrade humanity in order to make itself look grand and bring followers into its fold.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

Post Reply