Is Satan The Real God?

[Miles]

.

It's commonly claimed that god is a pretty good guy: He:

knows everything…
is all-powerful…
is ever-present…
is sovereign…
is holy…
is absolute truth…
is righteous…
is just…
is love…
is merciful…
is faithful…
never changing

A partial list I'm sure, taken from HERE

Not exactly certain what all of these things are, and some will probably differ depending on whom you ask, but they all seem to be good attributes, and no doubt make him worthy of worship, but on reading about some of the other things he has done:

Sending Bears to Murder Children for making fu of a bald man (4 Kings 2:23-24)

Turning Lot's Wife to Salt for breaking a rule she didn't know existed (Genesis 19:26)

Hating Ugly People (Leviticus 21:17-24)

Committing So Much Genocide (many verses)

Ordering His Underlings to Kill Their Own Children (Genesis 22:1-12)

Killing Egyptian Babies (Numbers 16:41-49)

Killing a Dude for Not Making More Babies (Genesis 38:1-10)

Helping Samson Murder People to Pay Off a Bet (Judges 14:1-19)

Killing People for Complaining About God Killing Them (Numbers 16:1-49)

Everything He Did to Job (Job 1)

Condoning Slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46)

(Also a partial list)

one has to wonder just what kind of guy is running the show. A loving and benevolent god certainly wouldn't deceive people by doing dastardly things. Why would he? But a dastardly god, say one with the scruples of Satan who does a lot of deceitful and harmful things, could well try to deceive people into thinking he is good by occasionally doing the right a proper thing. So, where does this leave us? As I see it "the god of Abraham" reveals himself as more of an evil god (just to note, he does admit to creating evil) than a good god. In which case, it's far more likely that "Satan" is running the show.


What do you think?


.

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #29]

In regards of Satan (evil) vs. God (good), is does seem that God is absent a lot more in life than otherwise. One has to wonder why?

Why does it seem that way to you?

At the least, it seems God prefers some people over others, based on their lives and how their lives are going. I know I know - it's not about the here-n-now but about eternity. Which is all well and good but the here-n-now is relevant to those in the here-n-now. So maybe God doesn't care about that?
At the worst, God's given up (and justifiably so IMO) on the human race and it letting it 'run its course'.

This is only the image that Christianity gives to you regarding the creator. Why would you think that such an image need be the correct one?

If Satan is in charge, then he's either as powerful as God or God is allowing him do what he's doing. I don't find either of those options comforting in any way. But then again, I'm not 'a slave' to God and his 'ways'.

Yet you are something of a 'slave' in the fact that you are in the 'here and now' experiencing being a part of life on planet earth - in the shackles of knowledge of 'good and evil'.

[1213]

...
Lot and family flee to Zoar.
After reaching Zoar, the destruction begins.
Lot's wife looks back.

Perhaps one shouldn't insert their own story, but read the one in scripture instead? Are there not warnings about adding to scripture? Do us atheists have to point those out for you as well?

Yes, let’s not insert anything own to that story. The story doesn’t tell that Lot’s wife reached the Zoar. It tells only that Lot came to Zoar and his wife was coming behind him. Apparently, because she looked back, she did not reach the town.

[benchwarmer]

...
Lot and family flee to Zoar.
After reaching Zoar, the destruction begins.
Lot's wife looks back.

Perhaps one shouldn't insert their own story, but read the one in scripture instead? Are there not warnings about adding to scripture? Do us atheists have to point those out for you as well?

Yes, let’s not insert anything own to that story. The story doesn’t tell that Lot’s wife reached the Zoar. It tells only that Lot came to Zoar and his wife was coming behind him. Apparently, because she looked back, she did not reach the town.

Please point out in scripture where " his wife was coming behind him" or his wife didn't reach Zoar. We'll wait..... Oh, you can't?

You are making stuff up. I can do that to. It doesn't say his wife made it to Zoar and it also doesn't say she doesn't make it there. You have decided to assume something to make it fit your narrative.

It doesn't say whether they were riding horses, in a cart, or walking so for you to posit your theory, you have to start inserting details which do not exist. I guess this is like most things in religion though, if you don't like what is plainly written then 'interpret' it such that it now lines up with your personal beliefs.

[brunumb]

I guess this is like most things in religion though, if you don't like what is plainly written then 'interpret' it such that it now lines up with your personal beliefs.

With the added condition that one's own interpretation is always the correct one.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #29]

In regards of Satan (evil) vs. God (good), is does seem that God is absent a lot more in life than otherwise. One has to wonder why?

Why does it seem that way to you?

At the least, it seems God prefers some people over others, based on their lives and how their lives are going. I know I know - it's not about the here-n-now but about eternity. Which is all well and good but the here-n-now is relevant to those in the here-n-now. So maybe God doesn't care about that?
At the worst, God's given up (and justifiably so IMO) on the human race and it letting it 'run its course'.

This is only the image that Christianity gives to you regarding the creator. Why would you think that such an image need be the correct one?

If Satan is in charge, then he's either as powerful as God or God is allowing him do what he's doing. I don't find either of those options comforting in any way. But then again, I'm not 'a slave' to God and his 'ways'.

Yet you are something of a 'slave' in the fact that you are in the 'here and now' experiencing being a part of life on planet earth - in the shackles of knowledge of 'good and evil'.

Sorry for the late response - I don't seem to be getting notifications as of late

Why does it (God is absent a lot more in life than otherwise) seem that way to you?

Looking around I don't see much of God in people's lives or society as a whole. Here-n-there, sure, but it's a vast minority.

This is only the image that Christianity gives to you regarding the creator.

Luckily I don't subscribe to the modern Christian's idea of their god.

Why would you think that such an image need be the correct one?

Never said it was the correct one. Factually, through this site, I'd said the opposite. But I'm speaking, here, to the 'Christian god' concept and ideology.

Yet you are something of a 'slave' in the fact that you are in the 'here and now' experiencing being a part of life on planet earth - in the shackles of knowledge of 'good and evil'.

That's different that being a slave to a deity, as many Christians - some on this very site - claim.
How? They made a choice to become enslaved.
I did, too once. And for a while, I was enslaved, by my own choosing, to this thing called god.
But I broke those chains, baby!!

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to Miles in post #31]

In addition to my reply to this topic, the question, "Is Satan The Real God?", is incredibly unfair and far from any Christian belief. I think it appeals to only Atheists and Former Christians, that's how unfair it seems.

That the goodness of the World, all the (lawful) joy we get to experience and all the good food we get to eat while sitting at the cradle of World information (the internet) and drinking from it all we can, and still such an awful question, that the Lord of all Evil is supposed to be behind it, with no creation credited this Lord at all, but Evil! It is just very mistaken, void of gratefulness for what life has to offer.

So this is from me, the question is deeply mistaken and God is The Master of all Goodness, as defined by Christianity. Nowhere does it say that God has been immoral because "there is no darkness in God"! Exactly!

[1213]

...
Please point out in scripture where " his wife was coming behind him" ...

But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
Gen. 19:26

[Diagoras]

And how it was possible. Bible tells that there rained brimstone and fire, which I think means there was some kind of meteor shower that had brimstone, which means also sulfur, which could explain also the fire. Sulfates are salts that are formed with sulfur. That is why, if Lot’s wife was turned into salt, it was probably sulfate salt. Interesting thing is that on that area there has been found gypsum, which is calcium sulphate. And it could bee formed when there is limestone and burning sulfur. When that rain came down, it apparently caused some kind of dust cloud or almost like pyroclastic flow that occurs generally in volcanic eruption. And if person was too close to it, it would have covered the person and it could have looked like salt pillar, in this case gypsum pillar. The area has also lot of common salt, which could have formed a salt cloud that covered everything that was there.

Quite a plausible explanation, thanks.

It strikes me though - the above explanation doesn’t require any god. So perhaps the bible story is a primitive person’s imaginative attempt to explain a meteor shower or volcanic eruption before any of the science behind those phenomena were properly understood.

[William]

[Replying to Miles in post #31]

In addition to my reply to this topic, the question, "Is Satan The Real God?", is incredibly unfair and far from any Christian belief. I think it appeals to only Atheists and Former Christians, that's how unfair it seems.

That the goodness of the World, all the (lawful) joy we get to experience and all the good food we get to eat while sitting at the cradle of World information (the internet) and drinking from it all we can, and still such an awful question, that the Lord of all Evil is supposed to be behind it, with no creation credited this Lord at all, but Evil! It is just very mistaken, void of gratefulness for what life has to offer.

So this is from me, the question is deeply mistaken and God is The Master of all Goodness, as defined by Christianity. Nowhere does it say that God has been immoral because "there is no darkness in God"! Exactly!

Unfair or not, it is because of Christian Mythology that the Devil has become as real as the God, and there are similarities which cannot easily be dismissed because of this.
Below is a picture of both those Entities depicted through the mythology...superimposed over each other...



...and done so to highlight said similarities...it is easy to see why folk get confused at the images Christian mythology presents to the world

[benchwarmer]

...
Please point out in scripture where " his wife was coming behind him" ...

But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
Gen. 19:26

Technically you got me, but if she is standing right behind him that is far different that "coming" behind him i.e. some distance back such that she would get consumed and he wouldn't.

This entire apology is ridiculous though because we have the angels telling Lot to get his family out. This means the angels would, if they are even semi competent, wait for Lot's entire family to cross whatever magical line means they made it to safety. Unless of course they are ruthless 'rules lawyers' and saw Lot's big toe touch the line and ignored everything else.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”